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Ingame Community => News and Updates => Topic started by: noD3 on 14 05, 2019, 08:03:42 pm

Title: [IMPLEMENTED] Changing couple unbalanced weapons
Post by: noD3 on 14 05, 2019, 08:03:42 pm
Back in the time, LS and LV Combat style meta ( In the world of gaming, meta can be used as an acronym for “most effective tactics available,” ) used to be the same, even if the gameplay was different, such as the speed of the gameplay. After years have passed by the CIT Weapons meta has evolved and various updates were introduced to the server. However I am not happy how that went to, since nowadays weapons meta is all about spamming weapons which have high fire rate, such as Minigun, M4 or Tec-9, these weapons are heavily overpowered for people who have good computers, since higher FPS means higher fire rate. From my point of view weapons meta should be something about skill and ability to aim rather than to spam one weapon and easily kill new players who have no clue what is happening in the server. Me myself and a lot of older players of the server would agree, that the weapon meta that existed back in 2012 was much better and more skill advanced than it is now.

Current system is based on holding your finger and spam either AK or MP5, you would not be able to run anyways and get killed. New players who still do not know about drugs have a hard time killing someone or escpaing from someone, which makes not stay in the server for a long time ( Why would anyone stay in the server if all they do is dying and being unable to kill someone? That's not fun... )

Here I would like to provide some statistical data to prove my that my statements are true.

I have tested each weapons damage with and without drugs and the kill time when shooting to the body, keep in mind that when shooting to the head it's even 25% faster which makes high accuracy weapons like m4 very easy to hit headshots.

Here are the results of my testings :
Show content
Quote

CIT Weapons Damage

------------------
Colts - 20
Colts against drugs - 16
Time to kill against drugs and full armor : 06.400 seconds
------------------
Deagle - 47
Deagle against drugs - 34
Time to kill against drugs and full armor : 04.833 seconds
-----------------
Combat Shotgun - 40
Combat Shotgun against drugs - 29
Time to kill against drugs and full armor : 04.352 seconds
-----------------
Shotgun - 60
Shotgun against Drugs - 43
Time to kill against drugs and full armor : 03.072 seconds
-----------------
Single Sawn Off - 50
Single Sawn Off against Drugs - 36
Time to kill against drugs and full armor : 06.720 seconds
-----------------
Double Sawn Off - 47
Double Sawn Off against Drugs - 40
Time to kill against drugs and full armor : 09.698 seconds
-----------------
Mp5 - 10
Mp5 against drugs - 7
Time to kill against drugs and full armor : 03.778 seconds
-----------------
Double Tec9 - 14
Double Tec9 against drugs - 10
Time to kill against drugs and full armor : 02.497 seconds
-----------------
Double Uzi - 14
Double Uzi against drugs - 10
Time to kill against drugs and full armor : 03.136 seconds
-----------------
M4 - 14
M4 against drugs - 10
Time to kill against drugs and full armor : 03.104 seconds
-----------------
ak47 - 14
ak47 against drugs - 10
Time to kill against drugs and full armor : 02.661 seconds
-----------------
Sniper - 60
Sniper against drugs - 43
Time to kill against drugs and full armor : 05.730 seconds
-----------------
Rifle - 32
Rifle against drugs - 23
Time to kill against drugs and full armor : 04.482 seconds
-----------------
Minigun - 7
Minigun against drugs - 6
Time to kill against drugs and full armor : 04.097 seconds
-----------------

Basically it does show that weapons like Tec9, m4, uzi, ak47 are the fastest ones to kill someone.

Here are the changes I would like to see implemented that I believe would make CIT better :




The proposal was brought to you by
@JayXxX and @noD3 councillor's agenda
[/list]
Title: Re: [PROPOSAL]Changing weapons damage & Making shooting more skilled wise
Post by: Arran on 14 05, 2019, 08:11:40 pm
Quote from: noD3 on 14 05, 2019, 08:03:42 pm
Here, I will provide the the damage and the clip size of weapons I would like to see changed, my expectations are realistic fast fights. Everything was tested in a private server with keeping in mind that drugs in CIT exist.

I'm guessing this is work in progress? Since it doesn't state clip size and I don't know if the damage you've put is what damage is done in MTA by default or what.
Title: Re: [PROPOSAL]Changing weapons damage & Making shooting more skilled wise
Post by: JimMys on 14 05, 2019, 08:15:34 pm
Good work...
BUT you forgot a factor that can destroy your research and it's called ''Armor'' . You said that needs only 6 bullets to kill one guy with spas, I agree with you. Never happens. You both have armor, thats mean 250HP and not 150HP. That's mean that AK/M4 spammer will kill you when you faced him with SPAS. Thanks to the new shotgun, in close distance you can kill these M4 users even if they have their armor, that's why they are crying and spam ''wtf is that shit''. I got tired to die when I played with SPAS against these M4 users, now I enjoy it.

In my personal view, I really liked the new armor by arran, helmet and vest because changed totally the gameplay (less HP, yes SPAS could win M4~close distance always)
Title: Re: [PROPOSAL]Changing weapons damage & Making shooting more skilled wise
Post by: noD3 on 14 05, 2019, 08:19:26 pm
Quote from: Arran on 14 05, 2019, 08:11:40 pm
I'm guessing this is work in progress? Since it doesn't state clip size and I don't know if the damage you've put is what damage is done in MTA by default or what.
The clip size is defined near every weapon by "clip".

And yes this is only the phase one of the proposal because before making the "final" one I want to hear other councilors ideas on this matter, since we have councilors from different "sides" of the game ( LV, LS, Law Players ). The only damage that I would recall default in MTA would be deagle's damage which is ~46


Quote from: JimMys$ on 14 05, 2019, 08:15:34 pm
Good work...
BUT you forgot a factor that can destroy your research and it's called ''Armor'' . You said that needs only 6 bullets to kill one guy with spas, I agree with you. Never happens. You both have armor, thats mean 250HP and not 150HP. That's mean that AK/M4 spammer will kill you when you faced him with SPAS. Thanks to the new shotgun, in close distance you can kill these M4 users even if they have their armor, that's why they are crying and spam ''wtf is that shit''. I got tired to die when I played with SPAS against these M4 users, now I enjoy it.

In my personal view, I really liked the new armor by arran, helmet and vest because changed totally the gameplay (less HP, yes SPAS could win M4~close distance always)

While proposing this I had number 180 in my mind, since this is what we get with full hp and all drugs and their resistances enabled. Also that is the damage they should be receiving when shot in the body, do not forget that when you hit a headshot you do more damage, so my calculations were made of hits shot to the body.

I did not count armor in this one because from my own experience in fighting most of the times you fight someone who does not have armor.
Title: Re: [PROPOSAL]Changing weapons damage & Making shooting more skilled wise
Post by: JimMys on 14 05, 2019, 08:24:46 pm
Quote from: noD3 on 14 05, 2019, 08:19:26 pm
I did not count armor in this one because from my own experience in fighting most of the times you fight someone who does not have armor.
Almost all server has DL1 and respawn with armor dude, what are you saying...


Title: Re: [PROPOSAL]Changing weapons damage & Making shooting more skilled wise
Post by: noD3 on 14 05, 2019, 08:28:07 pm
Quote from: JimMys$ on 14 05, 2019, 08:24:46 pm
Almost all server has DL1 and respawn with armor dude, what are you saying...



Have you played in LV and respawned in a turf? Or fought outside the respawns location, like in the middle of Los Santos when there is no time to wait 5 seconds of freeze time to craft armor?
Title: Re: [PROPOSAL]Changing weapons damage & Making shooting more skilled wise
Post by: JimMys on 14 05, 2019, 08:33:41 pm
Yes, when you are into a teamfight 10vs10, it's not so hard to find 5 seconds to hide yourself for crafting armor. I am sorry but I can't accept your research because HP is different as I said above.
Title: Re: [PROPOSAL]Changing weapons damage & Making shooting more skilled wise
Post by: Dredd on 14 05, 2019, 08:50:15 pm
Weapon system is not balanced, it's ok but I don't think it is in the right spot yet. Have in mind there are other factors in cit like weapon mods, ammo capacity, food, drugs, medics, (I think we have a range in sniper),running weapons disabled, what about on team-fighting, what about ranges in cit maps etc.. and there is LV and LS!

It's very difficult to come up with a balanced system since you need to change everything all the time and have someone who is equally good fighting with you.

What I could think it will make things balanced is an automated dynamic script that will tweak certain values on each weapon based on the percentage of the total kills of each weapon every day/week for example and like say in the script:

I want 1/2 of kills be with m4 and 1/2 with ak. (assault) for each LS/LV
2/3 with deagle 3/8 with colt 1/8 with tazer for each town... etc

Of course some values like ammo capacity could stay fixed and change other factors of stats on the weapons based on the kill stats, and it is even more complex than that since some weapons are used more in the start of the fight and players tend to use other weapons to kill/end their enemy so we still need to have this in mind.
Title: Re: [PROPOSAL]Changing weapons damage & Making shooting more skilled wise
Post by: noD3 on 14 05, 2019, 09:42:11 pm
Quote from: Dredd on 14 05, 2019, 08:50:15 pm
Weapon system is not balanced, it's ok but I don't think it is in the right spot yet. Have in mind there are other factors in cit like weapon mods, ammo capacity, food, drugs, medics, (I think we have a range in sniper),running weapons disabled, what about on team-fighting, what about ranges in cit maps etc.. and there is LV and LS!

It's very difficult to come up with a balanced system since you need to change everything all the time and have someone who is equally good fighting with you.
This is why we tested this with my group mate on our private server with both having equal both of everything, if we had all drugs, medkits and all other stuff enabled results wouldn't really change.

Quote from: Dredd on 14 05, 2019, 08:50:15 pm
What I could think it will make things balanced is an automated dynamic script that will tweak certain values on each weapon based on the percentage of the total kills of each weapon every day/week for example and like say in the script:

I want 1/2 of kills be with m4 and 1/2 with ak. (assault) for each LS/LV
2/3 with deagle 3/8 with colt 1/8 with tazer for each town... etc


You can't have this since people have different combat styles, some people prefer to use running weapons, some people prefer to keep his opponent on a long distance fight.


Quote from: JimMys$ on 14 05, 2019, 08:33:41 pm
Yes, when you are into a teamfight 10vs10, it's not so hard to find 5 seconds to hide yourself for crafting armor. I am sorry but I can't accept your research because HP is different as I said above.

This is one of the reasons why you were losing most of the team fights, other than that you are a councillor and please if you took your time to apply for one, take your time to discuss the proposals right.
I will help you with the math to understand what having armor will change : If combat shotgun takes around 6 bullets to kill someone who has drugs, then it means it will take around 10 bullets to kill someone who has armor, which is 66% more, single sawn off would be 6 bullets instead of 4 which is 50% more, so as you can see , all the calculations were made fair in my opinion, and by having armor it gives you a little more survivability, but it does not make huge impact and is pretty much same, since the weapons used will remain same depending on the circumstances how and where you are fighting with your opponent
Title: Re: [PROPOSAL]Changing weapons damage & Making shooting more skilled wise
Post by: Brian on 14 05, 2019, 11:16:11 pm
You also forgot accuracy. As I was discussing with Arran on Discord, Shotgun is total crap on far distance. If you compare it with spas on damage factor, you obviously have an OP weapon, yet if you shoot a player 1 meter more far, you might end up with an istant halving of damage. With spas you can hit a player even if they are far and still deal significant damage.

Want more? You can't crouch with shotgun as I had to block it due to MTA bug that makes you stand up after finishing an animation if you were crouched. Reloading shotgun freezes you because animations get you stuck, in 1.30 seconds while your animation is performing you are 100% defenseless.

Even more... how do players use a weapon? I was watching a gunfight and shotgun is basically used as a new Sniper or new Deagle to give a final shot. You lower a player's health to 20-30hp and end them with an OP weapon that stops others to kill-steal you or stops the victim from using lame-as-fuck running around objects tactic to heal back.

I'll look into recording how many points or maybe bullets do weapon use.
Title: Re: [PROPOSAL]Changing weapons damage & Making shooting more skilled wise
Post by: noD3 on 14 05, 2019, 11:21:01 pm
Quote from: Brian on 14 05, 2019, 11:16:11 pm
You also forgot accuracy. As I was discussing with Arran on Discord, Shotgun is total crap on far distance. If you compare it with spas on damage factor, you obviously have an OP weapon, yet if you shoot a player 1 meter more far, you might end up with an istant halving of damage. With spas you can hit a player even if they are far and still deal significant damage.

Want more? You can't crouch with shotgun as I had to block it due to MTA bug that makes you stand up after finishing an animation if you were crouched. Reloading shotgun freezes you because animations get you stuck.
My next proposal I am going to post is going to be a test server, which would be VERY useful to experiment proposals like this and get best results with all the features like CIT has such as drugs with health resistance, accuracy of the weapons ( Genuinely I don't even know how that is counted )
Title: Re: [PROPOSAL]Changing weapons damage & Making shooting more skilled wise
Post by: Dredd on 14 05, 2019, 11:29:31 pm
Testing the stuff on your private server is not the same

it's a lot different a fight when 2 players are using drugs and when 2 players aren't using any of drugs, actually.

A quick example, spaz has 7 ammo, if you play with no drugs you don't need reload if you are good at aim, if you play with drugs you need to reload a lot of times.
With drugs player have the ability to run and hide behind corners etc etc.

It's logical to say it's 2 different gameplays though even if you manage to stabilize weapons in 1v1 situation in your private server it won't be what CIT needs. I am not saying that your stuff are useless but more like a generic trend.
Title: Re: [PROPOSAL]Changing couple unbalanced weapons
Post by: noD3 on 17 05, 2019, 09:15:50 pm
I have improved the topic with the testings from CIT server, instead of changing quite a lot of guns I only proposed to change the ones who are most unbalanced ones.

Please councillors state your opinions.
Title: Re: [PROPOSAL]Changing couple unbalanced weapons
Post by: JimMys on 17 05, 2019, 09:28:07 pm
It's good idea to decrease M4 clip to 25 from 50.
Everyone will use AK then because they prefer spamming a weapon instead of aiming. It could be fixed too this one later.
Title: Re: [PROPOSAL]Changing couple unbalanced weapons
Post by: noD3 on 17 05, 2019, 09:41:11 pm
Quote from: JimMys$ on 17 05, 2019, 09:28:07 pm
It's good idea to decrease M4 clip to 25 from 50.
Everyone will use AK then because they prefer spamming a weapon instead of aiming. It could be fixed too this one later.
I just realized that 25 is too small clip size , maybe 40? @JimMys$ I mean the damage is already reduced
Title: Re: [PROPOSAL]Changing couple unbalanced weapons
Post by: JimMys on 17 05, 2019, 09:43:52 pm
I don't know,  administration only can help you, you did the tests in your local server. They should test them in the test server which is similar like CIT I guess with same armor/drug system etc.

At current system,  everyone spamming M4/AK and nothing can do, when both have armor. So a reduce to clips will be good and encourage players to aim or use other weapons
Title: Re: [PROPOSAL]Changing couple unbalanced weapons
Post by: noD3 on 17 05, 2019, 09:46:24 pm
Quote from: JimMys$ on 17 05, 2019, 09:43:52 pm
I don't know,  administration only can help you, you did the tests in your local server. They should test them in the test server which is similar like CIT I guess with same armor/drug system etc.

At current system,  everyone spamming M4/AK and nothing can do, when both have armor. So a reduce to clips will be good and encourage players to aim or use other weapons
I didn't test in my local server, re read my suggestion again, I did all the testings in the server with drugs and armor, I have proposed to reduce the damage of the spammed weapons so there should be less spam since you will have a chance to out damage them with combat shotgun or regular shotgun
Title: Re: [PROPOSAL]Changing couple unbalanced weapons
Post by: JimMys on 17 05, 2019, 09:47:50 pm
Quote from: noD3 on 17 05, 2019, 09:46:24 pm
I didn't test in my local server, re read my suggestion again, I did all the testings in the server with drugs and armor, I have proposed to reduce the damage of the spammed weapons so there should be less spam since you will have a chance to out damage them with combat shotgun or regular shotgun

I believe you but this is serious upgrade and only administration can approve it after their own tests  ;)
Title: Re: [VOTE]Changing couple unbalanced weapons
Post by: noD3 on 17 05, 2019, 10:03:01 pm
Quote from: JimMys$ on 17 05, 2019, 09:47:50 pm
I believe you but this is serious upgrade and only administration can approve it after their own tests  ;)

I think we should engage a VOTE so we could is see if other councillors agree that these weapons are unbalanced ( with all the statistical evidence I brought ) and if the majority of councillors agree developers should test this and then decide if this should be implemented or no.

I changed M4's clip size to 35 because it is possible to kill someone full hp and armor with 35 bullets of m4.


I would like to change this PROPOSAL to a VOTE
Councillors are free to state their opinions if they do agree  that these weapons should be nerfed or no.

Original proposal :
Show content
Quote from: noD3 on 14 05, 2019, 08:03:42 pm
Back in the time, LS and LV Combat style meta ( In the world of gaming, meta can be used as an acronym for “most effective tactics available,” ) used to be the same, even if the gameplay was different, such as the speed of the gameplay. After years have passed by the CIT Weapons meta has evolved and various updates were introduced to the server. However I am not happy how that went to, since nowadays weapons meta is all about spamming weapons which have high fire rate, such as Minigun, M4 or Tec-9, these weapons are heavily overpowered for people who have good computers, since higher FPS means higher fire rate. From my point of view weapons meta should be something about skill and ability to aim rather than to spam one weapon and easily kill new players who have no clue what is happening in the server. Me myself and a lot of older players of the server would agree, that the weapon meta that existed back in 2012 was much better and more skill advanced than it is now.

Current system is based on holding your finger and spam either AK or MP5, you would not be able to run anyways and get killed. New players who still do not know about drugs have a hard time killing someone or escpaing from someone, which makes not stay in the server for a long time ( Why would anyone stay in the server if all they do is dying and being unable to kill someone? That's not fun... )

Here I would like to provide some statistical data to prove my that my statements are true.
  • 56% of the players have less FPS than 50, which means that 44% players have fps above 50, which makes the statement that more thanm half of the players are having lower fps which makes their shooting slower.
    • Proofs :
      Show content
  • The most used weapons are mostly the most overpowered because it is easiest to kill with them
    • Proofs :
      Show content

I have tested each weapons damage with and without drugs and the kill time when shooting to the body, keep in mind that when shooting to the head it's even 25% faster which makes high accuracy weapons like m4 very easy to hit headshots.

Here are the results of my testings :
Show content

Basically it does show that weapons like Tec9, m4, uzi, ak47 are the fastest ones to kill someone.

Here are the changes I would like to see implemented that I believe would make CIT better :
  • New Tec9
    Show content
    Double Tec9 -  9
    Double Tec9 against drugs - 5
    Time to kill against drugs and full armor : Around ~3.204
  • New Uzi
    Show content
    Double Uzi - 9
    Double Uzi against drugs - 5
    Time to kill against drugs and full armor : Around ~ 03.536
  • New M4
    Show content
    M4 - 11
    M4 against drugs - 7
    Accuracy worse by 20%
    Clip size : 35 bullets
    Time to kill against drugs and full armor : Around ~ 03.704
  • New AK-47
    Show content
    ak47 - 11
    ak47 against drugs - 7
    Time to kill against drugs and full armor : Around ~ 02.961
  • New Shotgun
    Show content
    Shotgun - 50
    Shotgun against Drugs - 33
    Time to kill against drugs and full armor : Around ~ 03.772
  • New Minigun
    Show content
    Minigun - 5
    Minigun against drugs - 4
    Time to kill against drugs and full armor : Around ~ 04.801




The proposal was brought to you by
@JayXxX and @noD3 councillor's agenda

Title: Re: [REWORK] Changing couple unbalanced weapons
Post by: Arran on 17 05, 2019, 10:20:23 pm
Each weapon is independent of other weapons so can't be merged in to 1 topic.

Proposal lacks information on what percentage increase or decrease the damage should be changed by:

Double Tec9 -  9

That is completely meaningless to me.
Title: Re: [REWORK] Changing couple unbalanced weapons
Post by: noD3 on 17 05, 2019, 10:25:53 pm
Quote from: Arran on 17 05, 2019, 10:20:23 pm
Each weapon is independent of other weapons so can't be merged in to 1 topic.

Proposal lacks information on what percentage increase or decrease the damage should be changed by:

Double Tec9 -  9

That is completely meaningless to me.
I will update it with the percentage decrease to the weapons damage.

Should I open 6 different topics for each weapon or make a voting options, such as listing every weapon, from 1 to 6, which I am proposing to change and start the vote asking councillors to which of the weapons change they do agree to be changed? 6 Different topics would create even more proposals in the board and there is quite a lot of them already.
Title: Re: [REWORK] Changing couple unbalanced weapons
Post by: Arran on 17 05, 2019, 10:30:31 pm
Quote from: noD3 on 17 05, 2019, 10:25:53 pm
I will update it with the percentage decrease to the weapons damage.

Should I open 6 different topics for each weapon or make a voting options, such as listing every weapon, from 1 to 6, which I am proposing to change and start the vote asking councillors to which of the weapons change they do agree to be changed? 6 Different topics would create even more proposals in the board and there is quite a lot of them already.

You can post them in the same topic and then people can vote for each weapon. Just post a list of weapons so they can copy and paste it.

Also this thing about damage to players taking drugs is unnecessary, simply show what % change the damage per bullet will be.
Title: Re: [VOTE] Changing couple unbalanced weapons
Post by: noD3 on 17 05, 2019, 11:00:14 pm
Original topic quoted :
Show content
Quote from: noD3 on 14 05, 2019, 08:03:42 pm
    Back in the time, LS and LV Combat style meta ( In the world of gaming, meta can be used as an acronym for “most effective tactics available,” ) used to be the same, even if the gameplay was different, such as the speed of the gameplay. After years have passed by the CIT Weapons meta has evolved and various updates were introduced to the server. However I am not happy how that went to, since nowadays weapons meta is all about spamming weapons which have high fire rate, such as Minigun, M4 or Tec-9, these weapons are heavily overpowered for people who have good computers, since higher FPS means higher fire rate. From my point of view weapons meta should be something about skill and ability to aim rather than to spam one weapon and easily kill new players who have no clue what is happening in the server. Me myself and a lot of older players of the server would agree, that the weapon meta that existed back in 2012 was much better and more skill advanced than it is now.

    Current system is based on holding your finger and spam either AK or MP5, you would not be able to run anyways and get killed. New players who still do not know about drugs have a hard time killing someone or escpaing from someone, which makes not stay in the server for a long time ( Why would anyone stay in the server if all they do is dying and being unable to kill someone? That's not fun... )

    Here I would like to provide some statistical data to prove my that my statements are true.
    • 56% of the players have less FPS than 50, which means that 44% players have fps above 50, which makes the statement that more thanm half of the players are having lower fps which makes their shooting slower.
      • Proofs :
        Show content
        Quote
        *** Frames Per Second ***

        Below 10: 333
        Below 20: 123
        Below 30: 237
        Below 40: 335
        Below 50: 589
        Above 50: 1267
    • The most used weapons are mostly the most overpowered because it is easiest to kill with them
      • Proofs :
        Show content
        Quote
        *** Amount of deaths for each weapon (outside LV)***

        M4: 9492
        Shotgun: 4191
        Sniper: 4039
        Minigun: 3580
        AK-47: 2918

    I have tested each weapons damage with and without drugs and the kill time when shooting to the body, keep in mind that when shooting to the head it's even 25% faster which makes high accuracy weapons like m4 very easy to hit headshots.

    Here are the results of my testings :
    Show content
    Quote

    CIT Weapons Damage

    ------------------
    Colts - 20
    Colts against drugs - 16
    Time to kill against drugs and full armor : 06.400 seconds
    ------------------
    Deagle - 47
    Deagle against drugs - 34
    Time to kill against drugs and full armor : 04.833 seconds
    -----------------
    Combat Shotgun - 40
    Combat Shotgun against drugs - 29
    Time to kill against drugs and full armor : 04.352 seconds
    -----------------
    Shotgun - 60
    Shotgun against Drugs - 43
    Time to kill against drugs and full armor : 03.072 seconds
    -----------------
    Single Sawn Off - 50
    Single Sawn Off against Drugs - 36
    Time to kill against drugs and full armor : 06.720 seconds
    -----------------
    Double Sawn Off - 47
    Double Sawn Off against Drugs - 40
    Time to kill against drugs and full armor : 09.698 seconds
    -----------------
    Mp5 - 10
    Mp5 against drugs - 7
    Time to kill against drugs and full armor : 03.778 seconds
    -----------------
    Double Tec9 - 14
    Double Tec9 against drugs - 10
    Time to kill against drugs and full armor : 02.497 seconds
    -----------------
    Double Uzi - 14
    Double Uzi against drugs - 10
    Time to kill against drugs and full armor : 03.136 seconds
    -----------------
    M4 - 14
    M4 against drugs - 10
    Time to kill against drugs and full armor : 03.104 seconds
    -----------------
    ak47 - 14
    ak47 against drugs - 10
    Time to kill against drugs and full armor : 02.661 seconds
    -----------------
    Sniper - 60
    Sniper against drugs - 43
    Time to kill against drugs and full armor : 05.730 seconds
    -----------------
    Rifle - 32
    Rifle against drugs - 23
    Time to kill against drugs and full armor : 04.482 seconds
    -----------------
    Minigun - 7
    Minigun against drugs - 6
    Time to kill against drugs and full armor : 04.097 seconds
    -----------------

    Basically it does show that weapons like Tec9, m4, uzi, ak47 are the fastest ones to kill someone.

    Here are the changes I would like to see implemented that I believe would make CIT better :
    • New Tec9
      Show content
      Current Tec9 damage - 7 Hitpoints
      Proposed Tec9 damage -  4.5 Hitpoints
      Tec9 damage should decrease by  35%
      Time to kill against drugs and full armor : Around ~3.204 seconds
    • New Uzi
      Show content
      Current Uzi damage - 7 hitpoints
      Proposed Uzi damage - 4.5 Hitpoints
      Uzi damage should be decreased by 35%
      Time to kill against drugs and full armor : Around ~ 03.536 seconds
    • New M4
      Show content
      Current M4 damage - 14 hitpoints
      Proposed M4 damage - 10 hitpoints
      M4 damage should be decreased by 28%
      Accuracy should be worse by 20%
      Clip size should be changed to 35 bullets from 50 bullets.
      Time to kill against drugs and full armor : Around ~ 03.704 seconds
    • New AK-47
      Show content
      Current AK47 damage - 14 hitpoints
      Proposed AK47 damage - 10 hitpoints
      AK47 damage should be decreased by 28%
      Time to kill against drugs and full armor : Around ~ 03.101 seconds
    • New Shotgun
      Show content
      Current Shotgun damage - 60 hitpoints
      Proposed Shotgun damage - 50 hitpoints
      Shotgun damage should be decreased by 16.6%
      Time to kill against drugs and full armor : Around ~ 03.772 seconds
    • New Minigun
      Show content
      Current Minigun Damage - 7 hitpoints
      Proposed Minigun Damage - 5 hitpoints
      Minigun damage sohuld be decreased by 28%
      Time to kill against drugs and full armor : Around ~ 04.801 seconds




    The proposal was brought to you by
    @JayXxX and @noD3 councillor's agenda
    [/list]


    I have updated the weapons damage and stated by how much percentages the damage should be decreased of the proposed weapons.

    I would like to re-open the voting phase and I would like to ask councillors take a part to vote for this proposal,
    if you are voting positive for this proposal, please vote for which weapons you are voting positive, I will give you the list of the weapons that is being proposed in the topic and you can delete the weapons you would not want to see changed, at the end of the VOTE I will do a summary about which weapon received the amount of votes.

    Weapons list that is being proposed in the topic:
    Code: [Select]
    M4, AK47, Tec9, Uzi, Shotgun, Minigun
    Title: Re: [VOTE] Changing couple unbalanced weapons
    Post by: noD3 on 17 05, 2019, 11:02:16 pm
     :tick: My vote would be positive and I would like to see these weapons - " M4, AK47, Tec9, Uzi, Shotgun, Minigun " get changed, because I believe they are over powered and the spammy weapons favor the player who has higher fps, rather than something that requires skill like shotguns, deagle or snipers. These weapons won't be destroyed and they will be still used but the damage they do will be slightly nerfed.
    Title: Re: [VOTE] Changing couple unbalanced weapons
    Post by: CyraX on 17 05, 2019, 11:47:32 pm
     :tick:
    Shotgun damage and AK are really Op, people are spamming them non stop, I wish to see their damage getting reduced.
    Title: Re: [VOTE] Changing couple unbalanced weapons
    Post by: noD3 on 17 05, 2019, 11:49:26 pm
    Quote from: CyraX on 17 05, 2019, 11:47:32 pm
    :tick:
    Shotgun damage and AK are really Op, people are spamming them non stop, I wish to see their damage getting reduced.
    @CyraX Since the proposal is for the M4, AK47, Tec9, Uzi, Shotgun and Minigun do you feel that only Shotgun and AK's damage should be changed or you think all of these weapons damage should be reduced by a little bit?
    Title: Re: [VOTE] Changing couple unbalanced weapons
    Post by: CyraX on 17 05, 2019, 11:52:36 pm
    Quote from: noD3 on 17 05, 2019, 11:49:26 pm
    @CyraX Since the proposal is for the M4, AK47, Tec9, Uzi, Shotgun and Minigun do you feel that only Shotgun and AK's damage should be changed or you think all of these weapons damage should be reduced by a little bit?
    The ones I mentioned are kinda used the most, and you can't face people who are carrying ak or shotgun with weapons you just mentioned. We could make a decrease for these ones right now and see if it will work fine when testing other weapons against those 2 after getting reduced.
    Title: Re: [VOTE] Changing couple unbalanced weapons
    Post by: noD3 on 17 05, 2019, 11:56:16 pm
    Quote from: CyraX on 17 05, 2019, 11:52:36 pm
    The ones I mentioned are kinda used the most, and you can't face people who are carrying ak or shotgun with weapons you just mentioned. We could make a decrease for these ones right now and see if it will work fine when testing other weapons against those 2 after getting reduced.
    As I have stated in my topic, these are the most used weapons outside LV ( The number shows amount of death by that gun ):
    M4: 9492
    Shotgun: 4191
    Sniper: 4039
    Minigun: 3580
    AK-47: 2918

    M4 is the most used weapon and the most over powered one, it has incredible accuracy which makes it very easy to hit headshots on someone, if we would nerf only AK and Shotgun the demand for m4 would increase by a lot and you would notice even more people running with them.
    Title: Re: [VOTE] Changing couple unbalanced weapons
    Post by: Randy on 18 05, 2019, 12:02:20 am
     :tick: I agree, some weapons really need to be balanced
    Title: Re: [VOTE] Changing couple unbalanced weapons
    Post by: iShadow on 18 05, 2019, 02:13:07 pm
     :tick:
    I agree, all of this weapons should be nerfed.
    Title: Re: [VOTE] Changing couple unbalanced weapons
    Post by: JimMys on 18 05, 2019, 02:27:39 pm
    AK clip is currently 90. If we decrease M4 to 35 we need decrease AK too ?
    Quote from: noD3 on 14 05, 2019, 08:03:42 pm
    • New M4
      Show content
      Current M4 damage - 14 hitpoints
      Proposed M4 damage - 10 hitpoints
      M4 damage should be decreased by 28%
      Accuracy should be worse by 20%
      Clip size should be changed to 35 bullets from 50 bullets.
      Time to kill against drugs and full armor : Around ~ 03.704 seconds
    • New AK-47
      Show content
      Current AK47 damage - 14 hitpoints
      Proposed AK47 damage - 10 hitpoints
      AK47 damage should be decreased by 28%
      Time to kill against drugs and full armor : Around ~ 03.101 seconds
    Title: Re: [VOTE] Changing couple unbalanced weapons
    Post by: noD3 on 18 05, 2019, 06:30:54 pm
    Quote from: JimMys$ on 18 05, 2019, 02:27:39 pm
    AK clip is currently 90. If we decrease M4 to 35 we need decrease AK too ?
    Yes you are right , I havent thought of that , ak47 should be decreased to something like 60 since it has bad accuracy but a faster shooting rate.
    Title: Re: [VOTE] Changing couple unbalanced weapons
    Post by: JimMys on 18 05, 2019, 06:47:50 pm
    What if make it: Clip sizes:
    Show content
    M4 : 50 -> 30
    AK : 90 -> 50
    Title: Re: [VOTE] Changing couple unbalanced weapons
    Post by: Anuran on 18 05, 2019, 06:49:10 pm
    Quote from: JimMys$ on 18 05, 2019, 06:47:50 pm
    What if make it: Clip sizes:
    Show content
    M4 : 50 -> 30
    AK : 90 -> 50
    AK is not that OP compared to M4. So I think reducing it from 90 to 70 is enough?
    Title: Re: [VOTE] Changing couple unbalanced weapons
    Post by: noD3 on 18 05, 2019, 06:56:05 pm
    Quote from: JimMys$ on 18 05, 2019, 06:47:50 pm
    What if make it: Clip sizes:
    Show content
    M4 : 50 -> 30
    AK : 90 -> 50

    M4 should stay at 35 since that will be enough to kill a guy with one clip, I do agree with the AK clip change.


    Quote from: Anuran on 18 05, 2019, 06:49:10 pm
    AK is not that OP compared to M4. So I think reducing it from 90 to 70 is enough?
    You can't compare m4 to AK since they have same damage but different properties such as :
    AK - Faster firing rate yet worse accuracy
    M4 - Slower firing rate yet bet accuracy.

    Because of the headshots system It might look that M4 is better, but AK47 should deal more dps ( damage per second )

    M4 : 50 -> 35
    AK : 90 -> 50

    This should be okay and enough for those who use that gun to kill 1 person with a single clip.
    Title: Re: [ACCEPTED] Changing couple unbalanced weapons
    Post by: noD3 on 19 05, 2019, 01:02:55 am
    Summary: Suggestion is set Accepted, 5 councillors agreed on this proposal.

    Here are the following weapon changes that should be made :





    Title: Re: [ACCEPTED] Changing couple unbalanced weapons
    Post by: Brian on 19 05, 2019, 11:51:15 am
    - I don't get why Tec-9 and Uzi should be identical when they can have unique stats for each other, have different uses and adapt to different situations.
    -
    M4: 22467
    Sniper: 9721
    Shotgun: 9182
    AK-47: 8285
    Minigun: 8052
    Combat Shotgun: 5366
    MP5: 4707

    I don't understand why AK-47 should be nerfed even tho is mildly used. Nerf M4 and see the usage of AK after that. You want to change everything and then god knows what change affects the game more.
    - Shotgun damage was lowered on 15th of May so your proposal might change shotgun into another unused weapon.

    All of this topic except M4 which is clearly overpowered as it's almost 3x the usage of 2nd most used weapon sounds like a huge rant from players who can't adapt to new ways of weapon usage. I like how big part of suggestions and hints I gave in the other topic were promptly ignored even by the lead developer. So ye I guess even this reply will be just a waste of time.
    Title: Re: [ACCEPTED] Changing couple unbalanced weapons
    Post by: Arran on 19 05, 2019, 12:30:16 pm
    Quote
    M4 damage should be decreased by 28%
    Accuracy should be worse by 20%
    Clip size should be changed to 35 bullets from 50 bullets.

    No fucking way am I reducing the damage by that much and making the accuracy worse and making the clip size worse. I'm only going to reduce the damage. I imagine that after this update everyone will just be using the sniper even more than they already do, it's fucking ridiculous seeing players using THE LONGEST RANGE WEAPON IN CLOSE COMBAT and this will likely just get worse, if it does I'm just going to revert this proposal. In fact the fact that as Brian has shown sniper is second most used weapon to kill and yet you want to "change couple unbalanced weapons" which are hardly used just shows that this proposal is biased to YOUR preferences and probably the other councillors either have the same preference or simply didn't bother to consider how this will make the weapons even more unbalanced. I will reset the kills by weapon and see how it changes. If it's more unbalanced then I'm reverting it.

    Current:

    Show content
    *** Amount of deaths for each weapon (outside LV)***

    M4: 22809
    Sniper: 9826
    Shotgun: 9269
    AK-47: 8386
    Minigun: 8152
    63: 5975
    Combat Shotgun: 5406
    MP5: 4782
    Tec-9: 1853
    Deagle: 1467
    Fall: 1166
    Sawed-off: 1018
    Rifle: 575
    Drowned: 303
    Colt 45: 295
    Uzi: 134
    Explosion: 123
    Fist: 119
    Tank Grenade: 75
    Rocket: 36
    Silenced: 24
    Dildo: 23
    Bat: 16
    Rammed: 13
    Grenade: 12
    Knife: 3
    Katana: 3
    Shovel: 2
    Ranover: 2
    Flamethrower: 1
    Total: 81868


    *** Amount of deaths for each weapon (inside LV)***

    Sniper: 22404
    Combat Shotgun: 9007
    Deagle: 5533
    Grenade: 5266
    M4: 4272
    Tec-9: 2912
    Sawed-off: 2078
    Minigun: 1902
    Rocket: 1492
    AK-47: 1342
    63: 1105
    MP5: 546
    Satchel: 420
    Rifle: 403
    Shotgun: 378
    Fall: 207
    Uzi: 91
    Explosion: 87
    Fist: 43
    Colt 45: 33
    Drowned: 31
    Flamethrower: 9
    Dildo: 4
    Rammed: 3
    Bat: 3
    Silenced: 2
    Shovel: 1
    Total: 59574


    New:

    Show content
    *** Amount of deaths for each weapon (outside LV)***

    Combat Shotgun: 6345
    M4: 5793
    MP5: 5381
    Sniper: 4333
    63: 2882
    AK-47: 2470
    Minigun: 1699
    Shotgun: 1099
    Deagle: 823
    Fall: 547
    Rifle: 401
    Tec-9: 393
    Sawed-off: 339
    Colt 45: 148
    Drowned: 127
    Fist: 73
    Tank Grenade: 54
    Explosion: 47
    Uzi: 30
    Bat: 10
    Rocket: 9
    Rammed: 8
    Silenced: 8
    Dildo: 7
    Grenade: 6
    Katana: 3
    Knife: 2
    Shovel: 2
    Total: 33039


    *** Amount of deaths for each weapon (inside LV)***

    Sniper: 12467
    Combat Shotgun: 3631
    Deagle: 3148
    Grenade: 3047
    Sawed-off: 1388
    M4: 1110
    Rocket: 849
    MP5: 612
    Tec-9: 517
    63: 515
    AK-47: 390
    Minigun: 320
    Satchel: 246
    Fall: 95
    Rifle: 71
    Explosion: 45
    Shotgun: 44
    Uzi: 26
    Fist: 23
    Drowned: 11
    Flamethrower: 8
    Rammed: 4
    Colt 45: 2
    Bat: 2
    Total: 28571


    So sniper hasn't become over used (not talking about LV) like I imagined, well that's good. Amount of deaths per weapon is showing many unused weapons, so a future proposal could be made using a new /userstats output to determine what weapons need improving.