Author Topic: Freedom of Speech or Hate speech?  (Read 1889 times)

Offline Arex

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Freedom of Speech or Hate speech?
« on: 19 04, 2021, 08:11:20 am »
Well as per policy of most of  social media and community around us, hate speech is always discouraged. But, world is silent when some islamophobic content is uploaded, even if we report it, twitter/facebook say, their is nothing wrong with the post while it act as matchstick to flame up muslims around the globe.
Who likes being outlawed because of race, religion or cast? Right now, because of some blasphemous activities by the French government, many muslim countries criticized for it, Not only this, it has caused Civil war in Pakistan, But as the matter was about to cool down, Greet Wilders, posted a nasty tweet playing role as matchbox to flame up muslim world
But, if we post hate speech against any religion, state or cast, we get warning on the spot but while the things the world is doing, isn't hate speech, it can't be freedom of speech at all

The whole twitter of Greet Wilders is filled with haterd against Islam and yeah I reported, and guess what twitter said? My report is invalid wow. 

Offline Nikos

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Re: Freedom of Speech or Hate speech?
« Reply #1 on: 19 04, 2021, 09:29:53 am »
For me that's a very complex topic. I truly believe that you should be allowed to express literally anything you wish, even if it's extremely offensive and pointless. Opressing someone might lead to terrible actions.
Now is it fine to express anything you want? Well for me it shouldn't be against the law but it should be damaging if it's something offensive or disgusting. For example I kinda understand companies who just fire people when they find out their workers are racist or support some extreme ideology. The company may choose to not relate at all with such ideologies and by firing the workers who do is a good solution.
To sum up, I personally think most of the times it comes on how mature you actually are. I mean you should be mature enough not to get offended over people who go against what you truly believe and also to be mature enough to not go against everything you disagree and bring people into uncomfortable situations because it's not worth the time.
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Offline Arex

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Re: Freedom of Speech or Hate speech?
« Reply #2 on: 19 04, 2021, 11:12:08 am »
For me that's a very complex topic. I truly believe that you should be allowed to express literally anything you wish, even if it's extremely offensive and pointless. Opressing someone might lead to terrible actions.
Now is it fine to express anything you want? Well for me it shouldn't be against the law but it should be damaging if it's something offensive or disgusting. For example I kinda understand companies who just fire people when they find out their workers are racist or support some extreme ideology. The company may choose to not relate at all with such ideologies and by firing the workers who do is a good solution.
To sum up, I personally think most of the times it comes on how mature you actually are. I mean you should be mature enough not to get offended over people who go against what you truly believe and also to be mature enough to not go against everything you disagree and bring people into uncomfortable situations because it's not worth the time.

If I give opinion about black people crimes, world will call it racism
We can express anything as we wish? Then why people get muted on public forums get muted for spreading hate speech
I do remember, there was a period of time when my Facebook timeline was full with indian content against Pakistan and they were abusing Pakistan.

If indian types "Fuck Pakistan" , it's freedom of speech

If Pakistani types "Fuck india" , it's hate speech and I have got warning from facebook and got muted for a week too.

I posted a meme against india, and my Facebook account was muted for week for the reason of hate speech but even if you goto indian pages, you will see alot things against Pakistan.

Now let's come to topic, the matter of islam is the same. The Islamophobism has disturbed us a lot. If some muslims talk against anyone , it's hate speech and if someone talk nasty about islam, it's freedom of speech.
Go examine in facebook.

You will even get muted if you comment "Christians are stupid" , and I am telling because I have been muted for this reason in past.
Isn't it duel standard behavior? If world do, it's freedom of speech and if some muslims  say anything, it's hate speech

@Nikos now tell me , what hate speech is?

And as far Terrorism is concerned, we muslims have nothing to do with it. What is the definition of terrorism? The actual Terrorists group kill other muslims too, so they have nothing to do islam. And as far jihadist is concerned, well if someone come in your home, kill your father , siblings etc while you survived, will you take revenge or just forgive them? Also what will you do if some country invade your homeland?
« Last Edit: 19 04, 2021, 11:18:38 am by Arex »

Offline Nikos

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Re: Freedom of Speech or Hate speech?
« Reply #3 on: 19 04, 2021, 11:48:27 am »
The problem lies on the fact that you think that it's justified to act like a duchebag when other people do. Hate isn't supposed to be returned. I clearly mentioned:
Quote
you should be mature enough not to get offended over people who go against what you truly believe
.
So stop offending people who offend you, stop hating people who offend you. Just fulfill yourself with whatever you think is good for you and ignore those duchebags.
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Offline Arex

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Re: Freedom of Speech or Hate speech?
« Reply #4 on: 19 04, 2021, 11:53:21 am »
The problem lies on the fact that you think that it's justified to act like a duchebag when other people do. Hate isn't supposed to be returned. I clearly mentioned: .
So stop offending people who offend you, stop hating people who offend you. Just fulfill yourself with whatever you think is good for you and ignore those duchebags.
Well yeah, I am against protestors who are just coming on roads and breaking everything but I guess we humans should promote moral ethics at first priority.
When I abuse other race or religion, of course what I did was wrong and being muted was fair, but the thing which hurt kinda worse is that, this rule doesn't apply on us. Causing duel standard.
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Offline Arran

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Re: Freedom of Speech or Hate speech?
« Reply #5 on: 20 04, 2021, 07:28:10 pm »
something offensive

Being offended is subjective. Therefore things being "offensive" isn't a valid reason that something shouldn't be allowed.

For example if someone lives in a country where all women walk around completely covered up and they go to a country where women wear a variety of things, they may be offended by a woman wearing a dress, skirt, etc. Or if that woman then was teleported to a country where all women are covered up and then everyone will be offended by her lack of being covered up and she'd be offended too by the actions they'd take against her, so...

Being offended is a choice. If something offends you that is your problem. I used to get offended by people who insulted me. That was my problem. Now I don't care what dumb words some dumb person types on their keyboard. People need to stop taking life so serious.

IMO hate speech is simply an opportunity to practice your self control but also to feel sorry for the person who is consumed by hate, instead of doing the foolish thing and allowing their hatred to infect you too. The worse kind of hate speech I've ever seen is those American morons who hold signs up with stuff like "god hates fags" these people are obviously morons so why would you actually care about the opinion of someone so stupid. Just feel sorry for them because imagine how much of a pathetic loser someone must be to actually spend time and money creating a sign that says "god hates fags" and then to spend your time standing there holding the sign. Like out of all the amazing things you could do with your time, they chose that. Just feel sorry for them.

I have got warning from facebook and got muted for a week too.

Facebook have agendas. Also the biases of whoever has to review the report.
« Last Edit: 20 04, 2021, 07:36:30 pm by Arran »
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Offline Mohammad.

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Re: Freedom of Speech or Hate speech?
« Reply #6 on: 21 04, 2021, 05:30:50 am »
See, Free Speech must exist, because as said above, if it doesn't, it's going to bring many many troubles in society. society should allow everybody to say whatever they want and share all their ideas and beliefs no matter what they are, in the end, these people's wrong ideas will get corrected and that will contribute to the greater good. though, you need really good governments that are not corrupt and won't encourage different parties and people with certain beliefs against each other so nobody notices their corruption and gets busy hammering each other instead.

Repressing people with hate and terrible ideals and terrible thoughts within society will only make it worse and will increase their bias against whoever they hate, more fuel to the fire if you'd ask me. so it is better to let them say all they have, debate with them, understand them clearly and merge them within the society instead of leaving them at the outskirts with nothing but darkness surrounding them, and their growing hate and ignorance.

As for the Facebook & Social Media case you mentioned, these companies aren't objective, they are corrupt and full of pure BS. I personally don't use Facebook or anything familiar to it for this very reason. they have unlimited sources of propaganda, people sharing them, these people keep sharing over and over and over, until you open your homepage and see it for yourself, it's endless in many ways. they don't even care if they are proved to be supportive of hate or whatever, people are going to keep using them without using their minds, and that's what empowers them to do and say whatever they want.
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Offline OhhKarim

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Re: Freedom of Speech or Hate speech?
« Reply #7 on: 23 04, 2021, 04:27:38 am »
Being offended is a choice. If something offends you that is your problem.

Exactly. Nothing else has to be said. Nobody should be restricted from/punished for saying something just because someone gets offended by those statements, it's just another way of giving governments even more power.
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Offline Sevec

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Re: Freedom of Speech or Hate speech?
« Reply #8 on: 24 04, 2021, 04:46:03 pm »

Being offended is a choice. If something offends you that is your problem. I used to get offended by people who insulted me. That was my problem. Now I don't care what dumb words some dumb person types on their keyboard. People need to stop taking life so serious.

Don't you think it's ironic considering we have restrictions on what we can and can't say here on the server?
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Offline Dimit

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Re: Freedom of Speech or Hate speech?
« Reply #9 on: 24 04, 2021, 07:58:11 pm »
Don't you think it's ironic considering we have restrictions on what we can and can't say here on the server?
This is a forum for a computer game, not a social media platform, two different things :fp:

Besides that, we have the debate board for more critical and sensitive topics and you can say almost anything here as long as its constructive and doesnt go too far



some blasphemous activities by the French government
what "blasphemous activities by the French government" lmao
After a teacher (Samuel Paty, his name will never be forgotten) was beheaded by a muslim on the open street after using mohammed caricatures in a lesson, the french president made it clear that showing drawings of the islamic prophet mohammed isnt and will never be forbidden by any intolerant religious ideologies and that the french values of freedom, one of the biggest values of the developed parts of the world,  can not be touched.
What makes you think that France will change its laws and values only because people in Pakistan, 6000km away, keep slaughtering eachother in rage over european people exercising their rights and freedom (something which doesnt seem to exist in pakistan)

Btw its funny how you use the word "islamophobia" while muslims are able to freely practise their religion in France (so-called freedom of religion, another very important value of developed countries), while in countries which are based on the islamic law, like Pakistan and Saudi arabia, people of other beliefs (like christians) are being oppressed, persecuted, discriminated against, displaced, forcefully converted, imprisoned and even killed. And guess what, the people from these tyranny countries are killing eachother in riots against france, lel.
« Last Edit: 24 04, 2021, 08:23:09 pm by Dimit »
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Offline Arex

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Re: Freedom of Speech or Hate speech?
« Reply #10 on: 25 04, 2021, 04:49:15 am »
@Dimit  yeah, you are right. This incident has lead insurgency in my country. When the things cool down a little bit, I see Dutch Politician "Greet wilder" playing role as matchstick box , I reported him but I got biased response.
That's made discuss about this in the community.

Yeah , things could be solve through table talk if that intolerant act was not acted. Chopping off head isn't answer and I myself against protestors. They stupids are destroying National properties for fucking no reason and I would call them stupid

And guess again, I know many people whom I am fully aware what kind of people they, and they are fucking supporting the protestors and showing themselves true muslims  :fp:


Offline Arex

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Re: Freedom of Speech or Hate speech?
« Reply #11 on: 25 04, 2021, 05:03:55 am »
while in countries which are based on the islamic law, like Pakistan and Saudi arabia, people of other beliefs (like christians) are being oppressed, persecuted, discriminated against, displaced, forcefully converted, imprisoned and even killed. And guess what, the people from these tyranny countries are killing eachother in riots against france, lel.
Well it's not islam, it's even stated in Quran to give rights to non-muslims citizens (ofc in Islamic state) ,
And I see people highlighting so-called violent verses . Don't be cherry pick and tell what was the chapter it was taken from. Those verses were revealed during a war and a common sense says , no commander will tell it's army "Hey, fall back , we won't kill any one"
As far forceful converts are concerned, it's not practiced by State and illegal too. Some next-level psychopaths may do it, get jail too if reported .

Also, muslim is the one who accept islam by heart not by words else he is same as non-muslims, and psychology says it's impossible to change someone's ideology by forcing them
I read a Hadith and it says "Whoever killed a non-muslim for no reason will be so far from garden's smell even though it can be smelt from the distance of 50 thousand"
Islam is not intolerant religion, it's just some fucking people made it now

Offline Dimit

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Re: Freedom of Speech or Hate speech?
« Reply #12 on: 25 04, 2021, 03:44:39 pm »
@Dimit  yeah, you are right. This incident has lead insurgency in my country. When the things cool down a little bit, I see Dutch Politician "Greet wilder" playing role as matchstick box , I reported him but I got biased response.
That's made discuss about this in the community.
Wilders is a politician
Like le pen in france, erdogan in turkey, trump in the US, almost all countries have right-wing extremist politicians who try to gain votes by promoting hate and nationalism on the shoulders of minorities, and this problem can never be fixed without limiting other basic rights. The only way to prevent is is lots of education, a strong democratic constituion and consequent seperation of powers.
These extremist politicians are usually elected by uneducated voters and highly religions people (which often is the same group), some even manage to take control over the government, like it happened in Turkey, the US, Poland, Hungary and so on.
None of these places are nearly as violent as intolerant as for example Pakistan or Saudi arabia though.

Yeah , things could be solve through table talk if that intolerant act was not acted. Chopping off head isn't answer and I myself against protestors. They stupids are destroying National properties for fucking no reason and I would call them stupid

"table talk" for what? What the teacher did is not an offence in france and never will be so what do you need table talk with these protesters for when its not up for debate?
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Well it's not islam, it's even stated in Quran to give rights to non-muslims citizens (ofc in Islamic state)
You are wrong, the quran is filled with verses which are used against follwers of other beliefs and atheists

And I see people highlighting so-called violent verses . Don't be cherry pick and tell what was the chapter it was taken from. Those verses were revealed during a war and a common sense says , no commander will tell it's army "Hey, fall back , we won't kill any one"
nothing is "cherry picked", whats written in the quran, other islamic writings and publications is written there and applied by their followers, you can say "cherry picked" to the stuff that is actively causing violent actions in the world
And you know very well that your "during a war" argument is meaningless because from a religious standpoint, anything can be considered as "far against the religion", even a drawing of a prophet, which means there is always a war situation

Also, muslim is the one who accept islam by heart not by words else he is same as non-muslims, and psychology says it's impossible to change someone's ideology by forcing them
Wrong, forceful conversion has been a part of all monotheistic religions for centuries and the only reason why christianity and islam have spread all over the planet, its still occuring at radical islamic regions, including pakistan

Quote
Pakistan doesn't have stronger legislation to prevent forced conversions and due to this these forced conversions go unabated.[11]

In November 2016, a bill against forced conversion was passed unanimously by the Sindh Provisional Assembly. However, the bill failed to make it into law as the Governor returned the bill. The Bill was effectively blocked by the Islamist groups and parties like the Council of Islamic Ideology and Jamaat-e-Islami.[19]In 2019, a bill against forced conversion was proposed by Hindu politicians in the Sindh assembly, but was turned down by the ruling Pakistan Peoples Party lawmakers.[20] In 2020 "Protection of the Rights of Religious Minorities Bill" was introduced in the Senate of Pakistan that could prevent forced conversions of minority girls, but it was turned down by the Senate Standing Committee on Religious Affairs and Interfaith Harmony chaired by Jamiat Ulema-e-Islam (F) (JUI-F) senator Abdul Ghafoor Haideri. The Krishna Kumari Kolhi, Pakistan Peoples Party (PPP) Senator, walked out of the Senate during the meeting as a form of protest.[21]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forced_conversion_of_minority_girls_in_Pakistan

Quote
Forced conversions
Main article: Forced conversion of minority girls in Pakistan
Protest against forced conversion of Christian girls in Pakistan organised by NCJP

In October 2020, the Pakistani High Court upheld the validity of a forced marriage between 44-year-old Ali Azhar and 13-year-old Christian Arzoo Raja. Raja was abducted by Azhar, forcibly wed to Azhar and then forcibly converted to Islam by Azhar.[50] Human rights organizations estimate that upwards of 1,000 Christian, Hindu, and Sikh girls are abducted each year. A large portion of them are then forced to convert to Islam.[51] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christianity_in_Pakistan#Forced_conversions

Quote
In 2019, a Christian journalist quit the channel Dunya News after she was allegedly persecuted for her faith by co-workers and insulted for not converting to Islam.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christianity_in_Pakistan#Discrimination_in_the_Constitution

Keep in mind that this is the same religion whose followers currently protest that china, another violent extremist regime, forces uyghurs to drop their religion currently. #doublestandards

I read a Hadith and it says "Whoever killed a non-muslim for no reason will be so far from garden's smell even though it can be smelt from the distance of 50 thousand"
Islam is not intolerant religion, it's just some fucking people made it now
Read your text again
"for no reason"
The verse means that you are allowed to kill anyone as long as you have a "reason", which means the beheading of samuel paty is legitimated by your verse
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Offline Arex

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Re: Freedom of Speech or Hate speech?
« Reply #13 on: 25 04, 2021, 07:23:25 pm »
Yeah when the reason arise, everyone take action, don't they? That's when the jihad comes, and for what reason we are allowed to kill non-muslim? Simple answer is "self-defense" , if some cruel is killing muslims , it's important for us to stop them even if it result in killing him,
What's the point of army?
#Double_Standard
Not every muslim whol hold weapon is Terrorist, they fight for their country.
So War between US and it's enemies, US army kill the enemies and protected their lands and became hero
The muslim who killed a US soldier in Afghanistan, protected his land but sadly world call him Terrorist
#double_standard

You are non-muslim, right? My belief says to me , if I kill you , I will be in hell , @Dimit
You want to know the reason, for which I am allowed to kill you? If you are threatening other lives of Muslims, and ofc you are not doing , thus no logic to kill you


@Dimit consider some people come to your home, kill your family, destroy your homeland, what will be your reaction?

That's why islam tell us to do Jihad to protect other.

If some group comes to your hometown and start killing everyone, someone come to kill them and you call him hero.

So why you call us Terrorist?
#Doublestandards


This debate should locked now as it's gonna be off topic now, but let me add something
Check the war history of US.
The common things is that, none of the war is played in US land. E.g whoever throw grenade either US or Afghanistan soldier, whose land will be damaged?
Who are the ivaders?
Also there are many non-logical things that make 9/11 questionable though
The simple rule of west is, "if we kill, we are hero, if they kill, they are Terrorist"

If I was in Afghanistan, Yamen, Syria etc , if some US , Israel soldier etc come to kill me, a muslim save me by killing that guy, what should I call him, a hero or Terrorist?
« Last Edit: 30 04, 2021, 10:37:47 pm by Dimit »

Offline Arex

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Re: Freedom of Speech or Hate speech?
« Reply #14 on: 01 05, 2021, 06:52:08 am »
@Dimit I am not in mood of writting a huge detail note about, because I don't think it will prove my point. But if 9/11 wasn't preplanned can you explain following questions:

1) How armed people entered into plane? Wasn't there a tight security check-up?
2) Hijacking the plane, huh? If I put gun on your head while you are driving plane? Won't you lose control to handle?
3) Its impossible to drive plane without commication with radar system, you will just lose direction, without guide, how they directly hit target building,
you play San Andreas, Try to hit andromeda on some specific building and check how much math is behind it
4) What was Air force doing? What is the speed of Jet to a standard flight airplane? A plane got hijacked and no news about it, hilarious.

What politics behind it, would be a great debate, But just take a look on result of 9/11 , how East suffered for it?

Huh, you are saying me not to afraid if some US/Israel army is passing by, Huh... I am slave to them? What the peice of shit they are doing in other's state? Spreading terror.

I am not saying Al-Qaeda is not terrorist oragnization , not ever Muslim who pick up the weapon is Terrorist. Considering, US has done alot drone attacks in Pakistan, but what will beleive , what West Media say? US claim to target killing terrorists, and so does Western media says, but unfortuneatly , the captured intels come with different story, And yeah The many muslims joined terrorists organization just for revenge of their family

Quote
It doesnt, ive already proven you wrong about this in my previous post and I will not waste space below this topic explaining it to you again only because you appear to have reading issues, you can simply scroll up and read it again
Well I guess, you are not understanding what I mean to say


If killing is what you mean to say, just read British history (highlighting as it concearn to sub-continent india)
I am not supporting the Terrorists group at all, but I guess the both side of mirror should be shown in the media which is the only one way to stop Islamophobia