Author Topic: Making PAM Team gets refreshed by Community/staff votes every 2 months  (Read 3077 times)

Offline daddy

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Can confirm community can't be trusted  :cros:

Negative.

What this will turn into is a 'friends become PAM' scenario. Certain people will be more favored based purely on the fact they have more recognition and popularity in the server, not based on the skills and qualities that are needed for the PAM duty. Things would get ugly very quickly if this were to be implemented, and therefore it's a solid negative vote from myself.
It won't be by community players only the staffs will have their opinion on the players + Cons/Pros same with what happened with HSO refresh.

Offline Culph

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It won't be by community players only the staffs will have their opinion on the players + Cons/Pros same with what happened with HSO refresh.
I agree on this with you because we can't trust the community and refreshing the team is a good way to find good PAMs who can help solve cases etc... :tick:

Offline Coke

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Every year every month, this PAM team always causing trouble. Just release then from the misery  :hands: and let them enjoy the game. They don't even know what is turf, CE etc. OMG, just give them a peace and delete PAM board.  :tick:
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To begin with, if there're those who'll be offended because of my style, never read what I'm gonna type. This topic itself spreads bias on its own. GoldNugget, unfortunately, couldn't do his job properly and was kicked out/removed as a PAM. As can see here X, he said "punishable" for /cc. However, it was never punishable to insult someone in /cc (until GoldNugget made this stupid mistake). As for the appeals/UCs, you're talking about, you've nothing to do with them. The PAMs have dealt with them properly and they continue to do so. Yes, there may be mistakes from time to time, but these are things that can be fixed. It doesn't make sense for anyone to repeat the same things over and over again and cry the blues, does it? But the main issue I wanna touch on is the UC that zoldyck filed against the PAMs. Unfortunately, even a 2-year-old mentally stable child in need of care can easily understand that what was done was wrong, but either he doesn't understand, or his goal is to get Skyscrap and Atheer kicked out of the PAM Team. As for the summary of the subject and the suggestion, this suggestion is completely absurd. On the contrary, it'll increase drama a lot and cause a big mess. If you're waiting for an opinion from me, then I'll tell you my opinion. I am in favor of the abolition of the PAM Team forever. Because I'm tired of people constantly crying the blues related to this situation.

Offline Arnold

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Hello guys,

Most of replies here agrees to the suggestion that the team is unfair and need a refresh, if you really agree with the suggestion, then each of you need to post an unfair PA or UC and state the reason and what should be done instead of "oh ye bad team, refresh"

Atleast Daddy posted his opinion about PAs and UCs, if you really want to support this suggest then do the same, peace!
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Offline Taz

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Well about me I see everything is great why you guys blaming the PAM team play in peace and you will not need to even to post on the PAM borad so I really didn’t care about your suggestion so for me negative you guys think so much just play and have fun at the end it’s a game.  :cros:

Offline MOHAMED1500

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A Team that has so many issues that u mentioned shouldn't even stay and should be refreshed. :tick: Positive

Offline TheGam3r23

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Most of replies here agrees to the suggestion that the team is unfair and need a refresh, if you really agree with the suggestion, then each of you need to post an unfair PA or UC and state the reason and what should be done instead of "oh ye bad team, refresh"

Oh you mean like what most people do after a bullshit punishment only to have one of you guys or Brian who couldn't care less come and lock it and even give you a forum warning for drama?  :fp:

ok lemme explain about kicking thehacker

Offline daddy

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The more posts are made to this topic, the more complicated things become.

I still don't understand, do you propose to refresh this team every certain period, who gets to choose them?
The refreshment can be 2-3 times maximum until we can have a clear team without any red circles or any issues or complaints about them or how they're handling the cases, it can be done by head staff + trustworthy players or maybe high community members like RCM SCM+ we all can discuss that and In my opinion, maybe some players wouldn't agree about I prefer having Arran who is handling the team addition/remove if he has the time of course.

Is the method you are referring to the same as the method that existed many years ago, in which staff members would choose the candidates for the staff position based on the opinion of others? If so, then I am in favor of your proposal.

It is also important that as soon as the people vote against the candidate then they must attach evidence that justifies their claim and not just do an X and move on because this will turn into a lack of quality and contempt.

I'm neutral until the OP replies to my post.
It can be like that but I honestly recommend having Pros/Cons of players that want to have the position listed by the head staffs and players can have the ability to share their opinions too about the players about pros/cons like past issues and how he handled something in his old duty things like that.

I think that the current PAM system is the best.
Thank You For Voting I can see that they're using their common sense not quoting from Clarification of Specific Acts

so making a refresh till we get a PAM team with complete fairness with verdicts that make sense won't harm anyone and I don't think PAMs will be mad if someone is replaced with better players since they're contributing to the server and wishing the server the best meanwhile when previous leaks happened by GameMaster 3 PAMs resigned just to have a better replacement
- puhQ, Emma and Cooldude resigned. (26.08.2020 Brian)
« Last Edit: 07 09, 2022, 05:50:17 pm by daddy »

Offline zurq

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Atleast Daddy posted his opinion about PAs and UCs, if you really want to support this suggest then do the same, peace!

Yes thats the only reason of why we voted positively on his suggestion. Because he obviously posted his opinion about PAs and UCs and we clearly support his opinion.

Left this game already.

Offline Timbery

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The fact, that most of the people, that voted positive on the removal of PAM team (on the 1st page) have been and still are regularly punished and are usually spending more time on punishment appeal and unfairness case boards than playing the game without disturbing anybody is just ridiculous. It is also not hidden that most of the votes are based on one and only reason - certain players' topics (PAs and UCs) have not been handled the way they wanted.

Just an example is, player X gets punished for violating Y in-game rule, the punishment gets issued by a staff member after a discussion is being held among the staffs (one autonomous party validates the punishment)... Later one, the punished guy goes to PA board and appeals his punishment (which is clearly elaborated in the server rules as a punishable act, but he still opens an appeal), the punishment appeal gets rejected by PAMs(second autonomous party validates the punishment), even an administrator confirms that his punishment is valid... However, that person is still mad at the staff that punished him and the PAM team for validating his punishment - he starts insulting them ingame, prooviking in different ways and so. In the end X player comes here and upvotes on a highly disruptive and corruption-promoting suggestion.

There is no reason to refresh or remove the current PAM team or to involve the community in the recruitment of new members of that team. This quote describes the situation in the best possible way.
What this will turn into is a 'friends become PAM' scenario. Certain people will be more favored based purely on the fact they have more recognition and popularity in the server, not based on the skills and qualities that are needed for the PAM duty. Things would get ugly very quickly if this were to be implemented, and therefore it's a solid negative vote from myself.

PAMs are doing their job properly and the risk of any inappropriate / unfair moves being done is decreased to minimum as they are working along a L4 staff who is engaging in discussion from time to time. He monitors their performance and ensures fairness, whenever he sees any problematic action being done by any PAM, he notifies the entire team or the certain person. This may be seen from the leaked private chats of the PAM team, the ones of 2021 and so.

Negative
« Last Edit: 08 09, 2022, 11:19:06 am by Timbery »
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Offline Saif

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Since daddy scoped some issues that can have the refresh as a solution I don't mind actually with refreshing the team. I Agree
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Offline Brian

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So after a talk with headstaff group as a whole (L4s and Administrators) turns out the following:

- The team will not be refreshed every 2 months. The main reason is because it is senseless. Why? If someone knows they will stay only 2 months, they can just start doing whatever they want, not care of consequences and instead do a worse job than it's (supposely) being done.

- Plus I guess headstaff values their time more than just keep dealing with the same 4-5 players that won't understand they are not fit for PAM duty but still keep re-applying every 2 months and/or go around annoying us with more UC because they weren't chosen and instead somebody else took the position... and this is a fact that is well known in here, something doesn't go your way ---> start drama, open topics, cry to Arran, things don't go your way again, "this server is shit"

- And again, like another suggestion I answered time ago, you want to replace players with other players and then have a again shadowy way of handling things, as you described and back to point 1, you replace a problem with another problem. No person in here doesn't have interests, end of discussion.

- Another point L4+ agreed on is to place side by side staff members and PAM and introduce an hybrid system with PAM duty going back to staff team while keeping the part of team made also by players. I have the feeling this type of drama will never end so they most time saving solution is to just remove the player factor and put staff. We will actively work on this to have 2-3 staff members to handle cases while respecting CoSA topic and main rules and examples.

The rest was pretty musc explained by Timbery:

The fact, that most of the people, that voted positive on the removal of PAM team (on the 1st page) have been and still are regularly punished and are usually spending more time on punishment appeal and unfairness case boards than playing the game without disturbing anybody is just ridiculous. It is also not hidden that most of the votes are based on one and only reason - certain players' topics (PAs and UCs) have not been handled the way they wanted.

Just an example is, player X gets punished for violating Y in-game rule, the punishment gets issued by a staff member after a discussion is being held among the staffs (one autonomous party validates the punishment)... Later one, the punished guy goes to PA board and appeals his punishment (which is clearly elaborated in the server rules as a punishable act, but he still opens an appeal), the punishment appeal gets rejected by PAMs(second autonomous party validates the punishment), even an administrator confirms that his punishment is valid... However, that person is still mad at the staff that punished him and the PAM team for validating his punishment - he starts insulting them ingame, prooviking in different ways and so. In the end X player comes here and upvotes on a highly disruptive and corruption-promoting suggestion.

There is no reason to refresh or remove the current PAM team or to involve the community in the recruitment of new members of that team. This quote describes the situation in the best possible way.
PAMs are doing their job properly and the risk of any inappropriate / unfair moves being done is decreased to minimum as they are working along a L4 staff who is engaging in discussion from time to time. He monitors their performance and ensures fairness, whenever he sees any problematic action being done by any PAM, he notifies the entire team or the certain person. This may be seen from the leaked private chats of the PAM team, the ones of 2021 and so.

Negative

Peace.

Offline Ptole

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- Another point L4+ agreed on is to place side by side staff members and PAM and introduce an hybrid system with PAM duty going back to staff team while keeping the part of team made also by players. I have the feeling this type of drama will never end so they most time saving solution is to just remove the player factor and put staff. We will actively work on this to have 2-3 staff members to handle cases while respecting CoSA topic and main rules and examples.
PAA are allowed to assist the PAM team by casting their votes on appeals from now on.