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Ingame Community => News and Updates => Topic started by: Timbery on 20 12, 2022, 08:55:05 pm
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Dear community,
Today, I am here to raise up one of the numerous issues which are around the Cops and Robbery system and more specially related to the Criminal Events - the reentry system. It is a long lasting issue, known to many players and is also bothering majority of the side which has a smaller team of players outside the event.
The concept to reenter in an event in case you get murdered in the very beginning is understandable, but it should be strictly controlled, otherwise it would cause additional troubles. Despite of the current restrictions which were enforced over the events to guarantee fairness and balance, it does not seem to be working. Currently, the only two restrictions to prevent "mass stacking" and "one-team domination" are:
- if one of the teams has more than 2 players than the enemy one - the players from that team cannot enter inside
- if somebody has been killed inside the CE, he cannot enter inside unless X seconds passes from the moment he was killed
During the past months, the team with less players waiting outside the CE was suffering and being exposed to unfair gameplay experience. Most of the time, this was and still is the police team due to the endless reentry system which aids only the team with more players outside the CE. A solution to get this issue resolved is redesigning the function of the reentry system and disallowing players to enter in the CE after the fifth minute passes.
There are a few reasons why it is beneficial to limit player respawn in criminal events (just for the protocol, reentry is quite similar to respawn definition):
- To increase the strategic element of the game: Limiting player reentry can encourage players to be more careful and strategic in their gameplay. They may be more inclined to work together and use cover, rather than simply rushing into combat, stealing kills and ending up murdered... knowing that they may simply reentry after X seconds and re-do the previous steps.
- To make the game more realistic: In many real-life situations, there is a limited number of times that a person can respawn. By limiting player respawns in the game, it can help to make the game feel more realistic and immersive.
- To prevent players from respawning constantly: If players are able to respawn an unlimited number of times, it can lead to a never-ending cycle of respawning and killing as it has been happening right now and been ongoing since months (unless the larger team does not fully dominate the smaller one or the event does not run out of time). Limiting player respawns can help to prevent this and make the game feel more fair, especially to the team with smaller amount of players outside the event.
- To encourage players to play differently: Limiting player respawns can encourage players to try different tactics and approaches to the game. They may be more likely to experiment with different weapons, abilities and map-positions, which can make the game more varied and interesting.
- It helps to balance the game: Limiting player respawns can help to balance the game and ensure that one team or player doesn't have an unfair advantage. For example, if one team is able to respawn an unlimited number of times, they may be able to overwhelm the other team with sheer numbers. Limiting player respawns can help to prevent this and make the game more balanced.
Overall, limiting player re-entries or rather "respawns" in criminal events can help to increase the strategic element of the game, make it feel more realistic and fair, and encourage players to try different tactics and approaches.
The shortest version of this suggestions is:
Limiting the re-entry system to the 5th minute of the criminal event, the reasons for this may be seen in the above paragraphs. Another feature which should be part of the script is, any person that was queued to enter in the CE (standing near the entry marker) from before the 5th minute will still be able to enter once his turn comes even after the 5th minute.
Edit: As I have received several questions regarding this suggestion, if there will be some sort of "exceptions" for DL2+ owners, PCs or CBs to enter after the 5th - no, there should not be any. There is not any reason, which may justify such a privilege being given to any players.
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previously it was added that you cannot re-enter the EC for the same reason that the police expose that criminals always win in quantity, but let me tell you the reason why there are always more criminals within the ECs, the reason is that most of police even the PCs themselves give orders to stay outside to wait for the CE to finish and thus be able to kill criminals easily without having to enter the CE to fight, they even place MPCC for those who died inside the CE to also join the farm kills out of CE, making it so no criminals get out, so I don't think this won't change the fact that criminals outnumber cops, it's been tried before and still the same, so if you set MPCCs and wait Until the criminals finish the CE, you don't want to create another update that will remain the same now. :cros:
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:tick: Positive
I believe Timbery already explained everything. Limiting re-entering makes CEs more tactical and less ARish.
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I believe Timbery already explained everything. Limiting re-entering makes CEs more tactical and less ARish.
Positive.
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well explained, it will surely improve the CE. Positive :tick:
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:tick: Positive
I believe Timbery already explained everything. Limiting re-entering makes CEs more tactical and less ARish.
I am agree with Sheriff, CEs are all about holding a corridor for 15 minute, should be decreased to 5 or 10.
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Draxler, I appreciate the fact that you bothered to respond here, but according to what you have written in your reply... It is more than visible that you either have no clue what you are voting about or you just judged the entire suggestion according to its title without going into details and reading everything I had written in my main post.
Most of CIT players Like the CE better than AR because there's a teamwork And CB skills and so funny to play and learn about Combos I am talking about old system had CE/AR both running in the same time and you just talking about making CE more inactive to active ARs or CnR outside CE just because you cop cant deal with them in CE,
There is contradiction in your own post, there cannt be teamwork and tactical-strategic preparation, when there is a system which allows mass and constant reentries when one of the teams is being outnumbered OUTSIDE the event. It does not matter how many enemies you take down inside, when they have fresh backup outside... They can replace any person you murder inside within seconds and thus creates a never-ending cycle unless your teams does not run out of reinforcements (as it happens most of the time) and does not get entirely dominated.
What is needed nowadays to win a CE is:
- have a full team inside (2+ players than the enemy one)
- have a large fresh backup outside (more than the enemy team's one)
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I like the idea of restricting respawns after certain amount of time, the current style of CE total chaos, people rush, and either dominate the smaller team or end up holding CE till the 15th minute. Positive
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Agree with this proposal to balance it out. :tick:
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I agree limiting the re-entry can help balancing the game and encourage players to play differently and for many reasons that tembery explained on his suggestion :tick:
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There is a thing actually. I was a cop for a 2 days when I'm back from my inactivity. Like a 2 or 3 weeks ago. I saw the PCs were trying stop Cops to enter CE's. Just because if you don't enter Criminals can't enter CE's and they got nothing to do in the meanwhile. Also, 15+ Cops can chase 1 high wanted Criminal instead of attending CE's but if that high wanted Criminal manages to attempt current CE whole Cop side attempts Criminal Event. That's kinda breaking the CnR system which is not cool. So, even with this problem your suggestion makes it worst. Therefore, I'm negative.
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I don't think it's a good idea because when criminals are stuck entering CEs, like a criminal whose mission is finished in AR, he wants to go to CE in minute 5 he won't be able to enter CE ,Thus, the criminal will feel bored until the end of CE
Negative
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Just no CE system working fine why trying to fuck it up that's the funny part of the CE that you can enter it unlimited times So you can enjoy killing. Everyone could do a mistake in CE and die or get killed by ping spike so they can re-enter in this suggestion people who dies by ping will suffer from it I'm one of them I die like at least twice by ping spike in each CE. About "To make game more realistic" that's just a bullshit it makes the game more boring and annoying. NEGATIVE
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I agree with you . Positive :tick:
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CEs keeps going on until 15mins 70% of the time so your idea will help balancing that. :tick:
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I don't need to add anything else, it's all here. :tick:
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If you were suggesting to do this limit after the 10th minute, I would agree with you, but before 5th minute is toooo low. :cros:
The idea of increasing the time from 10 to 15 minutes was because both sides were actively participating in the CE what changed?
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The poor design of the current reentry system, which does not provide any balance at all and does not prevent one team stacking is the main factor why criminal events are not played that much by cops and lacks attendance.
As you may observe from the above posts, majority of the negative voters are criminals who will be concerned due to the not being able to stack in one event after X seconds passes from the CE and dominate the enemy team. Some of their votes are not even matching the topic's subject...
I agree with everything stated by Timbery, he explained all the essential stuff in a reachable way to all parts of the community.
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I don't quite understand why is everyone so upset over such a decent and fair suggestion which aims and will balance the odds in the criminal events of both teams.
There are multiple reasons why those events are indoors and this is not anything recently implemented, but this is how it is been for ages, it indicates of 'em being special. Therefore, they are supposed to play in a different, more special way, by using tactics, team communication and coordination instead of rushing from the beginning or going into full static position holding - farming kills and grinding stats like in ARs. Even if you get killed, you would still be able to enter 3 times before the 5th minute.
It is also an event and each event has its own restrictions and rules that we all have to play by. I mean if you fail at any event from an event manager you ain't going to request a directly reentry because of whatsoever reason and even if you do so - you would not be permitted to enter inside while the event is already in progress (like it is in team death matches events).
I agree with everything in this topic, as others pointed out already, Timbery did his part of the job and explained everything in the best possible way.
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All CnR system is broken in these days so I am not sure that these suggestions will work or will get positive votes. Law side doesn't have enough players for every hours in a day and if there are enough players, half of it doesn't respond and stays afk.
Another problem is law side has specifically players because all law groups have to play only law and this makes a huge problem about player number. New players are getting bored because of this single side thing and that's why we can't find more people. Thanks to other groups who play all sides, the law side is still barely alive. The real law side group's players are playing like real cops; sleeping at night, sleeping at afternoon etc. And these things make worse the situtation.
Secondly, the MOLOTOV. This gun has too much power and a nightmare for cops. Molotov should be for only gangsters again. We are already a dead side and molotov forces to stay dead. Our teargas has no damage and because of the AR designs, cops can't throw it to inside.
These days, the server hasn't enough players and if most of players play criminal and gangster, then why is there a law side? The server became a PvP server, hasn't real CIT2 soul anymore and PvP keeps alive the CIT, not the jobs.
One more thing, most of active CIT staffs (some of them are toxic) are from criminal side and I believe they want law side dead and ez money.
We need all police chiefs to make a general post, not a discussion post.
Edit: If yo look carefully, non of the criminals want to change current system. Arran doesn't care the server so no need to tire ourselves; eventually majority will win and it's not the law or civillian side. Have fun with your PvP on 2004 game :kek5: 🤡 🤡
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I like the current system. Chaotic environment, murders, massacres... :cros:
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Most of the player nowadays had no idea what CEs used to be back in 2013-16.. The golden time of CEs which was completely based on teamwork.. What’s happening nowadays is that there is no teamwork left.. everyone rush for kills and even if they die they can easily re enter.. CBs/PCs are unable to lead the CEs because most of the times their plan fails due to the re entry system..
i have witnessed CEs with 1 crim vs 5 cops and those 5 cops will not go after the last criminal but instead all of them will stay at criminal spawn to get free kills which clearly shows how broken the current CE re entry system is..
I know majority of the people will disagree with this suggestion as they will no longer be able to get free kills with unlimited re entries but if you look at the other side.. this is actually killing the whole fun..
back in the days there used to be no re entry system and everyone used to play very carefully but then fee people used to get timedout due to some reasons so for them to re join they have added limit of 2 entries per CE which worked really great and even if someone die by a mistake, he had 1 more chance to play carefully and that system encouraged team work, strategies and made Groups/ team leaders to lead their respective side properly..
But nowadays people has no idea how great and unique CEs used to be before… they have just seen the CEs with unlimited re entries and want to farm free kills.. If you look at those votes ratio so all the old players mostly voted positive for this one and I don’t understand why will someone even disagree with such suggestions unless they are being selfish and greedy for personal gain.
A big POSITIVE for this one..
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Current system is fine and it always ensures that the better team wins.
:cros:
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Most of the player nowadays had no idea what CEs used to be back in 2013-16.. The golden time of CEs which was completely based on teamwork.. What’s happening nowadays is that there is no teamwork left.. everyone rush for kills and even if they die they can easily re enter.. CBs/PCs are unable to lead the CEs because most of the times their plan fails due to the re entry system..
i have witnessed CEs with 1 crim vs 5 cops and those 5 cops will not go after the last criminal but instead all of them will stay at criminal spawn to get free kills which clearly shows how broken the current CE re entry system is..
I know majority of the people will disagree with this suggestion as they will no longer be able to get free kills with unlimited re entries but if you look at the other side.. this is actually killing the whole fun..
back in the days there used to be no re entry system and everyone used to play very carefully but then fee people used to get timedout due to some reasons so for them to re join they have added limit of 2 entries per CE which worked really great and even if someone die by a mistake, he had 1 more chance to play carefully and that system encouraged team work, strategies and made Groups/ team leaders to lead their respective side properly..
But nowadays people has no idea how great and unique CEs used to be before… they have just seen the CEs with unlimited re entries and want to farm free kills.. If you look at those votes ratio so all the old players mostly voted positive for this one and I don’t understand why will someone even disagree with such suggestions unless they are being selfish and greedy for personal gain.
A big POSITIVE for this one..
Couldn't agree more on this one. The current state of the game is just literally solo kills farming as everyone has a spawn nearby wherever they die, and now CEs has turned into the same shit. CEs back in the days were the only places where team strategies use to work, everyone use to play carefully and listen to their respective leaders. That's not the case anyone, no matter what you say I have seen people not giving a damn about CBs and PCs inside CEs, because they know if they listen to them they're not gonna get that free kill helping them to get on the top, they will just be running behind kills, and not actually working towards winning the CE as a team. One random player rushes on someone who is low, gets the kill and later dies himself, just to stand outside in the rat race for another 80 seconds to re-enter and do the same thing again, and the loop continues. People with the most numbers waiting in the queue outside have the most advantage. Current CEs are just deathmatch inside another dimension. Ngl, I myself do the things I have mentioned above and this definitely needs to change. Positive.
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:tick:
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Yeah it's in fact more strategic, and would absolutely help balancing the gameplay, dying, rentering and doing that over and over isn't an indicator of fun at all, probably making it like how Timbery explained is much better.
:tick:
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Any strategy or tactic goes out the window when a team can just respawn over and over again unless a team can come up with a tactic that can beat the opposing team in 1 go, and is thoroughly followed by everyone else, which rarely happens, if ever.
:tick:
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:tick:
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Everything clear :tick:
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:thumb: :tick:
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It really helps the law side, I am agreeing with timbery, limiting this issue is balancing both sides and improving it to a better way :tick:
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:cros:
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I agree with everything stated in this topic. The current situation was very well described in the main topic and in the above feedback/votes. Nowadays, criminal events are more of kill-farming events where the tactical and teamwork stuff are on last instance to think of.
I want to see the entire CE system redesigned as it it stated in this topic. Positive. :tick:
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I have read the suggestion and all the votes and after reconsidering the input given by the players and in accordance to my experience as a cop for the last 3 years, I pretty much understand how awful the current system may be and actually is.
The system which is active right now is absolutely biased and unfair to every team that is being outnumbered by the players outside the CE - we had the same reentry system like a year ago or so. It was not really liked by majority of the players, especially cops due to the pointed out reasons in the main topic. It is also needless to mention that we cannot really expect teamwork when the reentry system is designed to allow kill-farming until one of the team does not start dominating the other one based on the amount of backup outside the CE.
I agree with everything written by Timbery in this suggestion and I really want to see the reentry system restricted for the sake of balance of the event. Positive!
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Agree to this suggestion, however transitioning only on the suggested re-entry system lacks the option for when players would like to opt to switch playstyles from tactic and strategy to grinding and farming.
:tick: I am supporting this idea as long as both current and suggested re-entry system can be made use of such as but not limited to the following options:
- Players who are at the event can vote whichever playstyle (Current re-entry system vs This Suggested re-entry system) they'd like and after 4 minutes of the start of the event the poll closes and the playstyle is set from the majority of the votes. Whether be The Current re-entry system (Respawns) vs Tactical (No Respawns after 5 Min)
- The playstyles alternate after 1 event (Current re-entry system then No Respawns & Repeat) or 5 (5 Current re-entry system then 5 No Respawns & Repeat) to keep the balance and the option for whoever would prefer the older (Current re-entry) system.
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:tick: positive.
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:tick: positive
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I believe that by adding this restriction CnR will be more fun and enjoyable as they used to be back in the days, instead of just killing people inside and them returning back again and split the table upside down on the winning side in just a few seconds.
Positive :tick:
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I believe that by adding this restriction CnR will be more fun and enjoyable as they used to be back in the days, instead of just killing people inside and them returning back again and split the table upside down on the winning side in just a few seconds.
Positive :tick:
Positive from me.
30 positive, 10 negative votes. Marked as High Priority.
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- You won't be able to enter a criminal event if you enter the queue to join when it's been in progress for over 5 minutes. (Arran + Timbery)