Author Topic: Plant based meat what tastes/looks like same  (Read 1803 times)

Offline domi

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Re: Plant based meat what tastes/looks like same
« Reply #15 on: 10 04, 2021, 08:10:06 pm »
There is some kind of collective consciousness which at first is very difficult to change but gets exponentially easier over time.

Thanks for the comment. Anyway, I believe these sociological effects may not be effective for ingrained behavior such as the desire for meat consumption.

It's hard to deny that humans love to eat animal meat as much as they love to have sex.

Not even religious encouragement can stop people from eating meat.  Just look at India. Only 1 in 3 people in India are vegetarians despite the fact that vegetarianism is encouraged by mainstream interpretations of Hindu scriptures. Vegetarianism was even encouraged by their leader Gandhi.

I will grant you the following: in an ideal world, we would have lions and zebras singing kumbaya. We would have thousands of humans and thousands of cows minding their own business instead of humans preparing the other animal species for dinner.

In an ideal world, we would have no wars, we would have no family fights and no thieves.

But these are not our circumstances here on Earth. We are not living in an ideal world. We can do something to minimize suffering as much as possible, and that's about it.  Considering the insatiable human desire for meat, focusing on practical solutions is more realistic than "let's all stop eating meat".

You'd be surprised. I bet a lot of African Americans who were living in America when they were made to sit in a separate part of the bus and such would have thought that it would always be like that


Government-mandated racial segregation was not very common in history before colonialism and Jim Crow.

In contrast, eating meat and spreading gossip have been permanent practices in societies since prehistoric times. 
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Offline Arran

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Re: Plant based meat what tastes/looks like same
« Reply #16 on: 11 04, 2021, 10:06:42 am »
We can do something to minimize suffering as much as possible, and that's about it.

Not eating meat, or more specifically not buying any meat (or even better any animal product) is the best thing we can do in our lives to minimize the suffering going on in this world as buying meat or any animal products is profit for those who commit the most unimaginable suffering. All human suffering is nothing compared to the suffering of the tens of billions of farm animals alive right now some of which are in cages so small they never been able to even turn around like this:

Show content


I even saw one video where the pig was so cramped it had to CRUSH IT'S OWN BABIES TO DEATH. These sick disgusting humans are getting rich from everyone buying the meat they sell and they'll only stop when we stop buying it and since my words and the above image is not enough how about a short video of what is happening across the world in farms:

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Offline domi

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Re: Plant based meat what tastes/looks like same
« Reply #17 on: 11 04, 2021, 11:34:57 am »
I understand where you're coming from.

However, I believe you're anthropomorphizing. Yes, it would be awful if these animals were human. But farm animals are different than us. They do not have prefrontal cortex, so their experiences are not the same as ours. And they wouldn't live much better lives in the wild. In fact, farm animals have lower cortisol levels (stress hormones) than animals in the wild.

Farmers only respond to people's demand. It is people's ingrained appetite for meat that's driving the whole thing. I think trying to completely stop this appetite is futile. It is programmed in us like the appetites for gossip or even sex. It's part of who we are... blame evolution.

Meat producers should be more ethical in their approach to treating animals. But meat producers also make affordable meat for ordinary people and the hospitality industry. Whether we like it or not, humans evaluate job opportunities based on potential salaries. Then they go on to spend a good part of these salaries on meat consumption, travel and going out with their loved ones … where they eat meat together. 

When they travel, humans order meat in hotels and so on. If meat was more expensive, perhaps the whole economic system would collapse. Meat producers are using these practices because of the human condition. It is everyone's fault, and most importantly it is nature's fault.
« Last Edit: 11 04, 2021, 11:46:31 am by domi »
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Offline Arran

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Re: Plant based meat what tastes/looks like same
« Reply #18 on: 12 04, 2021, 11:28:40 am »
a lot of Arabic societies are still old fashioned in my "village" animals that are getting butchered are being butchered in as humane as possible and they live a normal life actually not forced in such farms

Are there any fast food shops like McDonalds? Any shop like that tries to maximise profits so buys the cheapest, factory farmed meat.

But farm animals are different than us. They do not have prefrontal cortex

Oh right so it's okay to torture and murder every animal in the world, all the worlds beloved animals like cats and dogs all because "they do not have prefrontal cortex". Some humans are psychopaths like those whose job it is to murder animals all day and wouldn't even feel any emotion murdering you. Would you rather be stuck in a cage with a serial killing psychopath human, or a cat or dog?

It is programmed in us

Well I don't know about you but I don't get any urge to kill any animal that I see. If you've ever seen a cat they are most certainly programmed to catch small animals like rats, they instantly go into their hunting pose when they spot a target. I don't see humans doing that whenever they see a chicken, pig or cow. Or has anyone ever said anything like "I get this uncontrollable urge to grab the nearest sharp object and go stab that animal to death". Oh, actually you're right, it is programmed in us, by our parents. If you parents feed you meat then until you use your conscious mind (probably that prefrontal cortex you were mentioning) to question your habits then nothing would ever change. All habits are learned and can be unlearned.
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Offline domi

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Re: Plant based meat what tastes/looks like same
« Reply #19 on: 12 04, 2021, 12:59:47 pm »
It's just debate.

Anyway, I'm not arguing that meat consumption is alright because it's natural and programmed in us. Instead, I'm saying that trying to stop it is futile because of those reasons.

Nature is amoral. It's neither good nor bad. Seeing a lion crushing a zebra may not be a pleasant sight, but there's nothing wrong with it. It's just how it is.

Even growing food for vegans results in countless animal deaths because the crops must be protected from animal predators. There are no ideal solutions. Extracting raw materials for cell phones results in  destruction of animal habitants. Scientists harm animals by experimenting with them. So unless someone wants to completely give up 21st century life and medicine, it's hard not to harm animals.

Idealism does not seem to be workable and practical.

Dogs and cats have special significance only because we  give them special significance. We like to hang out with them more than we like to hang out with other animals, and because humans have special rights, these rights extend to their pets. Pets have special rights out of the respect we have for the human owners. 

Nature is fucked and we can't fix it. Our priorities should be set on human flourishing and eradication of extreme poverty.
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Offline Mohammad.

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Re: Plant based meat what tastes/looks like same
« Reply #20 on: 13 04, 2021, 06:52:27 pm »
I usually eat Beyond meat burgers these days, which actually tastes exactly like high quality real meat while being 100 times more healthy and environmentally friendly

I dont recommend you to use the cheaper brands though beacuse they dont taste exactly as real meat yet, but that will change over the next few years while the market still grows

real meat will soon be a nieche product in developed countries
At least they'll start sending huge meat supplies to poor countries in Africa when that happens, so I really hope it does work in "Developed Countries", Regardless of it being actually harmful, or not.
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Offline Dimit

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Re: Plant based meat what tastes/looks like same
« Reply #21 on: 14 04, 2021, 12:51:33 pm »
At least they'll start sending huge meat supplies to poor countries in Africa when that happens, so I really hope it does work in "Developed Countries", Regardless of it being actually harmful, or not.
not sure what you are trying to say with your post or what it has to do with this debate
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Offline OhhKarim

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Re: Plant based meat what tastes/looks like same
« Reply #22 on: 16 04, 2021, 12:10:14 pm »
Yes, it doesnt matter whats happening at other places of the world

If you didn't care about what's happening in other places of the world, you wouldn't criticize and judge the way you constantly do.

my 2 graphics are showing the numbers at developed countries because obviously something which is based on development of advanced societies is only related to developed areas, in which cigarettes are indeed becoming a nieche product as shown in the graphs

A decrease doesn't mean it has become a niche product. Many 'advanced countries' are still amongst the highest smokers: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_cigarette_consumption_per_capita with Luxembourg even being on the number 2 spot.

Niche: denoting products, services, or interests that appeal to a small, specialized section of the population.

Contrarily, vegan products are a niche and will be so. A small increase over the years, doesn't mean vegan won't be niche anymore. It will always be the minority diet of mankind, which I know, boils your blood.



It has already been explained by me and other people in different meat related debates on this board how meat is unhealthy, carcinogenic and very harmful for the environment, yet you keep asking the same question again and again

One thing being unhealthy, doesn't make another product healthy. Fast food is also carcinogenic, sugary drinks are too, and even alcohol is. But I don't see you trying to make alcohol illegal, or at least trying to incentivize people not to drink. Not to mention, I am the one who decides to eat healthy or not, nobody else. First world countries are already facing continuous increased obesity so it's funny how you try to link those 'advanced countries' to a seemingly healthy approach regarding food intake, when in fact, they have high obesity rates for people who should be 'advanced' enough to know that eating too much, or specifically unhealthy food, considering they receive more education than underdeveloped countries (hence other countries may still have higher rates).





Abortions affect unborn embryos, usually only a few weeks old pieces of tissue, not fully grown, healthy, conscious animals

They affect unborn embryos and fetuses, which are human offspring in its earliest stages, they are already alive since conception (scientifically proven), so killing them is unethical to anyone with a hinch of common sense.

And by the way, "babies" are children during their first year after birth, what you are referring to are "embyros". Not being able to even use the correct terminology shows that you ALSO dont seem qualified and informed enough to share a meaningful post about abortion, something that has also been debated on this board multiple times in the past

Human offspring, unborn baby, embryo/fetus (depending on the stage), are all correct terms. I can call my car multiple things and it will still be correct: It's a vehicle, it's a transportation method, it's a car, etc. Neither are wrong, they are merely words to explain something. The matter fact is, no matter what you call it, it's human offspring that is alive and growing, so killing it is unethical.

So that makes me wonder if you have an actual memory issue or you just intentionally keep repeating these ben shapiro-style arguments while already knowing that the following posts will only be used to correct you and explain the most basic things to you that have already been explained to you several times?

You can keep talking about that jew called ben shapiro, I don't even know his standpoints on most topics because he is pro-israel so I do not watch his content. You can keep trying to insult me, it has zero affect on me, I don't care about words unlike leftists.
« Last Edit: 16 04, 2021, 10:54:52 pm by OhhKarim »

Offline OhhKarim

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Re: Plant based meat what tastes/looks like same
« Reply #23 on: 16 04, 2021, 12:19:19 pm »
Why do you have to mention that he is Jewish? racist much? it brings nothing to the table that you mention that Ben Shapiro is Jewish so you better cut it out unless it becomes relevant to the subject

@Dimit is this type of shit allowed? this is his 3rd of 4th post he does this

As far as I am aware, jews aren't a race so it is not possible for it to be a racist statement. Secondly, if you are associating the word 'jew' with something negative, no matter the context, then that is your own problem. Isn't that guy a jew? I'm pretty sure he is, in that case, why wouldn't I be able to refer to him as a jew if he is a jew? And even if he wasn't a jew, a jew isn't an insult, it's someone who follows judaism. Toughen up.

Offline OhhKarim

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Re: Plant based meat what tastes/looks like same
« Reply #24 on: 16 04, 2021, 01:12:07 pm »
Oh, so discrimination against Muslims in America doesn't exist? so people being denied positions being searched because they are Muslims is nothing right? after 9/11 everyone woman with Hijab would be considered a terrorist that isn't racist then? I know racist is more of a race thing but the term also means discrimination against a certain group of people because of religion color or community



Why refer to someone as a jew then?

Because he is one? Am I not allowed to refer to people by what they are? And who decides what's good to be referred by? Should I try to contact him on his email to see what he prefers to be referred to as? Again, toughen up, making problems out of nothing.

would you like to be referred to as that Muslim ohhkarim everywhere you go? would you like to go inside a cafe and be called Muslim <name here> wouldn't you feel weird that they have to call out your religion? and don't give me that bs I'm proud of being a Muslim and yes while infact you would cry if someone kept doing that to you so cut yourself short and if you can't behave decently when mentioning others you can gtfo

Man you can call me anything you want, unlike you, I don't care, it's just a word. I don't get offended by anything people say.

This isn't relevant to the subject so I will not respond to any more of your stupid replies because this isn't a debate

You are the one who started making irrelevant replies, I am just explaining how you are wrong.

Offline Dimit

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Re: Plant based meat what tastes/looks like same
« Reply #25 on: 16 04, 2021, 02:21:28 pm »
Why do you have to mention that he is Jewish? racist much? it brings nothing to the table that you mention that Ben Shapiro is Jewish so you better cut it out unless it becomes relevant to the subject

@Dimit is this type of shit allowed? this is his 3rd of 4th post he does this
Thank you for informing me, its not the first time that ohhkarim starts with insultive content when he is losing a debate

Ive edited out the racial offence from his post. I will also remove the off-topic argument above in 6 hours to clean up the debate again since they are not related to this debate, and I will keep my eyes open for further echo-antisemitism by ohhkarim

Btw im not suprised at all that even a plant-related debate on this board manages to somehow find a way to turn into a religious debate
There's no god, no saviour, no paradise and no life beyond. Our existence is limited. Nothing will save us from death.  Use your time on earth wisely.
Be kind to others, share your wealth - donate to the poor, protect the environment, use your opportunity every day to make earth a better place.
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Offline Arran

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Re: Plant based meat what tastes/looks like same
« Reply #26 on: 17 04, 2021, 10:34:13 am »
Or you could just lock this debate since everyone has already said what they wanted to say.
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