[Arran] Beta Roleplay based experimental side

[Otto]

In a new team, the jobs should be interactive with CnR part of the team (Stage 3) while also being interactive with the other players. I was planning on discussing the Stage 2 in another discussion topic but now that we are talking about adding them both Stage 1 and 2 at the same time to increase the amount of playable content, let me share some of my ideas that I believe is essential for this new team to work.

I'll skip explaining the Seville's idea from the original topic as we already discussed about it and there are both cons and pros of it. What I can think of is, scripting many CO-OP job events that are only occuring when a group of players fulfilling the requirements of the plotted event enter a marker that is made for accepting the job. The payments should be ranked in a way that promotes socializing. Like if there are 6 people required for an event to occur, the payments would be 4x while event that required 2 players would reward you with 2x each player. The examples could be like;

 - Delivering 'stuff' co-operatively in any job that requires deliveries like the actual Delivery Man. While one person drives around, the second person will unload and deliver the packages when the driver uses /engine or any other command that is suitable. Might seem like an unnecessary tweak but I as a person who chatted with Barcode while he was leveling all his civilian jobs to 10, not being able to co-operitavely work together made it a torment for us to socialize.

 - Trucker job with 2-6 players each truck having 1 driver and 1 forklift operator to load the goods before delivery. And perhaps unload them in the end if there is a possibility of placing free forklifts in the delivery points. (Recovering them out of nowhere is obviously not roleplaying)

Now that I already made my point I'll just mention the jobs that could work together on a roleplay level

 - Fire Fighter & Paramedics
 - Lumberjack & a Forklift operator if that is possible to script.
 - Hunter & Butcher
 - Two fishermans could work together to fill their Pickup Truck (Bobcat, Yosemite, Sadler, Walton) and deliver it to the destination point.
 - Some other jobs could work like the one above, like Hunter, Lumberjack, perhaps the vehicle they load might differ depending on how many players are grouping up and doing the job, like loading a truck instead of a pickup while a team of 4 lumberjacks are working.

Obviously, the ones I talked about above are the ones that are supposed to be done on a daily basis to earn money, not as unique as the one Sevilla talked about in the original topic. We need some other creative plots for events yet doing them repeatedly would spoil all the fun and importance of such unique events so they must be limited in a way that prevents players from boring themselves to death and eventually quitting.

Seville's idea; An example of how an interaction between two or more jobs could look like in RP-based jobs:
Like when fire fighter have the emergency dispatch to a place to extinguish the fire there are wounded/injured people inside. Those wounded/injured should be rescued and treated by medics. While the place is on fire, news reporters can be called to the place to shoot some photos. After a fire the city engineers should find burned out places they need to re-construct or if a parking lot with cars was on fire then the burned out cars need to be towed by mechanics to the nearest junkyard.

LASTLY, I think that the payments should be high for a while to promote the new team for a while so players could get a taste of roleplaying and socializing. Also adding a new group system for this occupation would be really helpful to this side considering the fact that noone would want to leave their groups and start a group for the roleplaying occupation.

I guess community could contribute with their ideas about interactive events in this topic, @seville_blv_1345 you might be interested in it.

And if the Stage 3 is ever implemented, the jobs must have options to be able to earn more money than normal by risking getting caught by the police and being charged for your actions. The options could be stuff like loading more than you could legally carry to your truck/van, and some interactive illegal jobs like delivering drugs, guns. It is too early to talk about Stage 3 so i'll wait and see if there are considerable amount of players that are interested in a roleplay based experience in the game by analyzing Stage 1 and 2 after its implemented.

[Auto]

I think you explained everything well. it came to me as a really good idea, I'm absolutely positive

[seville_blv_1345]

This will be a larger post as I have some ideas to share  .

Altering jobs to be more RP-based:
Not only the interaction of the jobs should be done alone but to keep in mind that there are jobs out there that could use more situations/activities to make the job more attractive and fun to play at and to justify it's payment. Like in this topic: https://cit.gg/index.php?topic=380026.0 we have already discussed about how the "simple" jobs are better paid than those with more steps to fulfill it. And so in the discussion we come up that the jobs in general could use secondary/tertiary parameters/situations/activities to make jobs actually more challenging but more fun and to create unexpected outcome. The farmer for example could be plagued by a locust swarm that can eat his planted crops if he is just standing around and to prevent it he has to fly over his plants with a crop duster. Another example would be to simulate weather temperature like a drought when he has to water his crops or the field (sadly we don't have a vehicle for it so maybe again with the crop duster but now with spraying water) and a water percentage to indicate how much water he has to spray around.

There could be even more jobs interacting with each other:
- City Engineers could conduct bigger construction projects like building of bigger houses and skyscrapers or infrastructure projects like a part of a highway or a bridge. Truckers and Pilots with helicopters bring in the needed materials from a construction yard (not sure on the ability of creating larger construction project as the problem of the max. object streaming limit in MTA still remains).
- Truckers with forklift operators that deliver stuff to a storage area at the airport and then need to lift crates from the truck into a storage located at the airport. Afterwards the forklift operators help loading transport planes with the crates from the storage and the pilots deliver the crates.
- Pilots bring passengers (tourists) to the airport where Bus Drivers with tour busses or Taxi Drivers awaits them to get them to hotels etc.
- Iron miners in hunter quarry have to use explosives (similar to cave miner) to blow up a rockface and then bring the little rocks with a forklift to near-by parked Dumper. When the Dumper's capacity has been filled to maximum the Truckers inside the Dumpers need to drive the rocks to a steel factory.
- Firefighters come to a highway where a mass collision between cars and trucks happened and they have to rescue peds trapped inside cars with a lockpick-minigame to simulate breaking doors open with a fire-axe. If gasoline trucks or truck with hazardous cargo are involved they have to prevent it from (self) igniting as such an explosion can kill everyone in a certain radius of the accident. Medics have to lead those rescued peds to their ambulance and after three peds they need to drive to the next hospital and then eventually return back to the scene. News reporters have to make photos from the scene. After all peds are rescued and fire put out, mechanics tow the demolished cars away to a repair shop/junkyard.
- I don't know if that is even possible to script but I will mention it here anyway: A cargo ship has a mechanical failure and it threatens to drift onto the nearest shore. Mechanics need to fix the engine of the ship while Fisherman use their boats to prevent the cargo ship from drifting too fast onto the shore. After the engine has been fixed the cargo ship stop to drift and several fisherman use their boats to haul the cargo ship to the nearest shipyard.

Large-scale interactive events:
Interactive events of a bigger scale can be interesting as it requires two or more jobs and alot of people (+10 and even more) to fulfill those jobs. As it should happen very rarely (between 2 weeks up to 2 months) it should be lucrative being part of such a large-scale event. As those events can have a longer duration till it is finished it should happen on weekends when people have more free-time.

Events by CEM's/Admins:
I even think of large-scale events like this:

Show content

. In this video there was a event which simulates a nuclear attack in where people have to be evacuated to a bunker and clean the radiation afterwards with a Sweeper while wearing HAZMAT suits. As I see @Rabbid Rabbit in this video too he could explain a bit more about the event shown in this video and possible ideas around it as I have never been in such an event. Events like this could be triggered by CEM's/Admins but with a limit per week/month.

My interactive event for the RP-based jobs can be done about a occurement of a natural disaster and it's aftermath like for example when a hurricane hits the town (for example in this case San Fierro):
-During a hurricane firefighter squads (as their duties are not just limited about extinguish fire) have to save peds from houses, cars etc. and police officers have to close the main roads with roadblocks and eventually fortify a hospital and set up an evacuation point at a stadium (SF have both of it). I think Bus Drivers and Pilots with helicopters can be used to evacuate civilians too. A timer would indicate when the hurricane make a landfall and before that everyone involved in this event and other players should seek shelter in the fortified stadium as they can die outside.
- After the natural disaster is gone lumberjacks have to cut trees that have fallen onto the streets. Mechanics checks the cars around the streets and see if a vehicle can be repaired or has to be towed to the nearest junkyard. Street Cleaner/Waste Manager have to clean the roads, damage on the infrastructure like parts of the highway or the bridge that has to be repaired by city engineers. Houses that are on fire needs to be put out by firefighters and eventually the damaged houses need a repair afterwards by city engineers. While everyone focuses on fixing the damage the police officers patrol the streets to stop looters who try to streal from markets around the city and news reporters have to shoot the photos from certain places. After everything is done the police officers removes the road block from the main roads and the event is over.
=> events like this should be a (very) rare event as this is very complex and let it happening too often can ruin the fun. That's why this should occur every 1 or 2 month IMO. And in this event even CnR elements can be integrated.

Impact of Roleplayers to the CIT-Economy (Stage 3 or later):
This is an idea which could be done later in Stage 3 or even after this when the RP based occupation has a wider player-base. We have Gas Stations, Ammu-Nation, Restaurants, Pay 'N' Spray, Mod-Shops and Car-Shops and my idea around it involves that those business have a global storage which can be depleted over time and the RP-jobs or even normal civilian jobs have to "refill" this global storage in those jobs. If they don't manage it to refill it accordingly the prices in those business goes up and have an impact on the general economy. Like for example when X-Ammo depletes completely the price can go up to 50% more of the normal Ammu-Nation price. The payment for the jobs who deliver the stuff should be based on this global storage so when the storage is near complete depletion the payment rise but when the storage is filled up the payment should be at normal rates. In such an economy you can even establish group-led factories which produce those goods and deliver it to the business.

PS: If a RP-team or RP-Occupation is ever to be created a new child board in the discussion board named "Ideas for RP-Gameplay" or whatever you want to name it should be created to seperate the ideas of the Roleplay-Features from the other discussions.

[Arran]

I am so confused...

Just give me a list of specific things to do in order for "stage 1" to be done.

[Otto]

I am so confused...

Just give me a list of specific things to do in order for "stage 1" to be done.

I'll make a prority list with its reasons stated on each section


FIRST PRIORITY

These will be the first priority as they are the essential basics of roleplaying

 x Collisions must be enabled, just like cops.

 x Being able to damage other players that are also occupied in this occupation with an update to prevent trolling and possible complaints caused by it, you'll be only able to damage your citbook friends.

 x Reducing the HP of roleplayers to 50, as 150 is ridiculously high and unrealistic. Or just 3X damage like you mentioned.
The goal must be minimizing the time that you stand idle with these interactive Co-operative jobs I suggested, to make it appealable for also casual players who are not that interested in roleplaying yet interested in somewhat realistic experience rather than a repetitive loop.

What I can think of is, scripting many CO-OP job events that are only occuring when a group of players fulfilling the requirements of the plotted event enter a marker that is made for accepting the job. The payments should be ranked in a way that promotes socializing. Like if there are 6 people required for an event to occur, the payments would be 4x while event that required 2 players would reward you with 2x each player. The examples could be like;

 - Delivering 'stuff' co-operatively in any job that requires deliveries like the actual Delivery Man. While one person drives around, the second person will unload and deliver the packages when the driver uses /engine or any other command that is suitable. Might seem like an unnecessary tweak but I as a person who chatted with Barcode while he was leveling all his civilian jobs to 10, not being able to co-operitavely work together made it a torment for us to socialize.

 - Trucker job with 2-6 players each truck having 1 driver and 1 forklift operator to load the goods before delivery. And perhaps unload them in the end if there is a possibility of placing free forklifts in the delivery points. (Recovering them out of nowhere is obviously not roleplaying)

Now that I already made my point I'll just mention the jobs that could work together on a roleplay level

 - Fire Fighter & Paramedics
 - Lumberjack & a Forklift operator if that is possible to script.
 - Hunter & Butcher
 - Two fishermans could work together to fill their Pickup Truck (Bobcat, Yosemite, Sadler, Walton) and deliver it to the destination point.
 - Some other jobs could work like the one above, like Hunter, Lumberjack, perhaps the vehicle they load might differ depending on how many players are grouping up and doing the job, like loading a truck instead of a pickup while a team of 4 lumberjacks are working.



SECOND PRIORITY

I would say that Seville's ideas should be second priority as his larger scaled ideas require some people to stand idle while their friends are working which could bore casual players. These ideas are for pure roleplayers so they can be delayed for a while.

There could be even more jobs interacting with each other: (Seville's ideas)

- City Engineers could conduct bigger construction projects like building of bigger houses and skyscrapers or infrastructure projects like a part of a highway or a bridge. Truckers and Pilots with helicopters bring in the needed materials from a construction yard (not sure on the ability of creating larger construction project as the problem of the max. object streaming limit in MTA still remains).

- Truckers with forklift operators that deliver stuff to a storage area at the airport and then need to lift crates from the truck into a storage located at the airport. Afterwards the forklift operators help loading transport planes with the crates from the storage and the pilots deliver the crates.

- Pilots bring passengers (tourists) to the airport where Bus Drivers with tour busses or Taxi Drivers awaits them to get them to hotels etc.

- Iron miners in hunter quarry have to use explosives (similar to cave miner) to blow up a rockface and then bring the little rocks with a forklift to near-by parked Dumper. When the Dumper's capacity has been filled to maximum the Truckers inside the Dumpers need to drive the rocks to a steel factory.

- Firefighters come to a highway where a mass collision between cars and trucks happened and they have to rescue peds trapped inside cars with a lockpick-minigame to simulate breaking doors open with a fire-axe. If gasoline trucks or truck with hazardous cargo are involved they have to prevent it from (self) igniting as such an explosion can kill everyone in a certain radius of the accident. Medics have to lead those rescued peds to their ambulance and after three peds they need to drive to the next hospital and then eventually return back to the scene. News reporters have to make photos from the scene. After all peds are rescued and fire put out, mechanics tow the demolished cars away to a repair shop/junkyard.

- I don't know if that is even possible to script but I will mention it here anyway: A cargo ship has a mechanical failure and it threatens to drift onto the nearest shore. Mechanics need to fix the engine of the ship while Fisherman use their boats to prevent the cargo ship from drifting too fast onto the shore. After the engine has been fixed the cargo ship stop to drift and several fisherman use their boats to haul the cargo ship to the nearest shipyard.


THIRD PRIORITY

And lastly third priority, large scaled events suggested by Seville. They are obviously third priority at the moment as we don't even know the usual player count we'll get on this occupation.

Large-scale interactive events:
Interactive events of a bigger scale can be interesting as it requires two or more jobs and alot of people (+10 and even more) to fulfill those jobs. As it should happen very rarely (between 2 weeks up to 2 months) it should be lucrative being part of such a large-scale event. As those events can have a longer duration till it is finished it should happen on weekends when people have more free-time.

Events by CEM's/Admins: (I would rather adding a role like ''Roleplay Manager'' equilavent of SO/PC/CBs that could trigger events like these if he/she notices considerable amount of active players at the time
I even think of large-scale events like this:

Show content

. In this video there was a event which simulates a nuclear attack in where people have to be evacuated to a bunker and clean the radiation afterwards with a Sweeper while wearing HAZMAT suits. As I see @Rabbid Rabbit in this video too he could explain a bit more about the event shown in this video and possible ideas around it as I have never been in such an event. Events like this could be triggered by CEM's/Admins but with a limit per week/month.

My interactive event for the RP-based jobs can be done about a occurement of a natural disaster and it's aftermath like for example when a hurricane hits the town (for example in this case San Fierro):
-During a hurricane firefighter squads (as their duties are not just limited about extinguish fire) have to save peds from houses, cars etc. and police officers have to close the main roads with roadblocks and eventually fortify a hospital and set up an evacuation point at a stadium (SF have both of it). I think Bus Drivers and Pilots with helicopters can be used to evacuate civilians too. A timer would indicate when the hurricane make a landfall and before that everyone involved in this event and other players should seek shelter in the fortified stadium as they can die outside.
- After the natural disaster is gone lumberjacks have to cut trees that have fallen onto the streets. Mechanics checks the cars around the streets and see if a vehicle can be repaired or has to be towed to the nearest junkyard. Street Cleaner/Waste Manager have to clean the roads, damage on the infrastructure like parts of the highway or the bridge that has to be repaired by city engineers. Houses that are on fire needs to be put out by firefighters and eventually the damaged houses need a repair afterwards by city engineers. While everyone focuses on fixing the damage the police officers patrol the streets to stop looters who try to streal from markets around the city and news reporters have to shoot the photos from certain places. After everything is done the police officers removes the road block from the main roads and the event is over.
=> events like this should be a (very) rare event as this is very complex and let it happening too often can ruin the fun. That's why this should occur every 1 or 2 month IMO. And in this event even CnR elements can be integrated.

[Arran]

Like if there are 6 people required for an event to occur, the payments would be 4x while event that required 2 players would reward you with 2x each player.

Are you seriously suggesting that players should earn 4 times as much money just because they're doing something with other players?

[Otto]

Are you seriously suggesting that players should earn 4 times as much money just because they're doing something with other players?

Well no, you're right though my somewhat decent English failed to explain what I actually had in mind. What I meant was players would earn extra (Amount of players . X (variable)). The payment could be calculated like (single player payment + (Amount of players . X variable)) as I don't know how much a player is supposed to earn in an hour, I left the pricing part of variable to you.

[Rabbid Rabbit]

Just replying to Otto as he mentioned me about the Nuke Event, it's a long post because I went into detail. I've partially spoilered my post because this is just one aspect of Otto's suggestion.

Show content

THIRD PRIORITY

And lastly third priority, large scaled events suggested by Seville. They are obviously third priority at the moment as we don't even know the usual player count we'll get on this occupation.

Large-scale interactive events:
Interactive events of a bigger scale can be interesting as it requires two or more jobs and alot of people (+10 and even more) to fulfill those jobs. As it should happen very rarely (between 2 weeks up to 2 months) it should be lucrative being part of such a large-scale event. As those events can have a longer duration till it is finished it should happen on weekends when people have more free-time.

Events by CEM's/Admins: (I would rather adding a role like ''Roleplay Manager'' equilavent of SO/PC/CBs that could trigger events like these if he/she notices considerable amount of active players at the time
I even think of large-scale events like this:

Show content

. In this video there was a event which simulates a nuclear attack in where people have to be evacuated to a bunker and clean the radiation afterwards with a Sweeper while wearing HAZMAT suits. As I see @Rabbid Rabbit in this video too he could explain a bit more about the event shown in this video and possible ideas around it as I have never been in such an event. Events like this could be triggered by CEM's/Admins but with a limit per week/month.

First off I want to say, I had soo much fun that day (as you can see in the video), I actually laughed and smiled like an idiot seeing this video just now, such good times. We need to have events like this more often, they really did spice up the game when things got monotonous. I can't stress that enough.

Secondly, I don't remember much of this because it was 8 years ago but seeing the video brought it all back.

So what made event so special for me was, the panic and scrambling of players to find a bunker and watching 800 players move around the map in real time, it was madness, and it's some of the most fun I've ever had in games, I laughed so much and enjoyed the chaos happening, it was fun and it most importantly, it was something that I had never experienced in any other game. It was also great to see players actually getting really involved in such a big event like this and every time I old players talking about nostalgic moments, some events like this are always brought up.




Large scale event: Nuke

Infected players and zombies

1. If you are caught outside a bunker when the bombs drop / nuke goes off, players will get radiation which will need to be cured / healed by a medic, not drugs or anything else. If they don't get cured by a medic in X minutes, that radiation reduces their health, armor, walk speed and so on. After X minutes of that happening, they turn into a zombie and cannot use weapons, just melee but they have more HP and can run faster than regular players giving healthy players a new danger they did not face before. Zombies can kill anyone and infect anyone if they land a melee attack, putting players at risk but also introducing a new reward, kill those zombies and they are rewarded with either money or drugs, this cannot be repeated on the same player twice or too soon to avoid abuse. Medics should find players to heal them, zombies should find medics as their gameplay is limited and players will be out to get them for the rewards, so they are incentivized to get cured.

Not sure if the original event had this or not.

Both sides experience risks and rewards in a new chaotic way.

2. Players who do not use the Hazmat suit outside after the nuke happens will get radiation poisoning and we go to step 1.

3. Any player who is attacked by a Zombie will lose their occupation at that time and will need to find a medic.


Cleaning up and finding rewards

1. As the nuke has gone off the map is scorched and on fire so players will need to use the firefighter occupation to put out fires which are burning around the map. Firefighters can use the hazmat suit. The fires have an icon to distinguish them from regular fires. Pay could be increased during this event or they find a rare valuable ingredient. They can use either the firetruck cannon or the extinguisher for trickier spots.

2. Due to the radiation in the air, everything has been contaminated so players will need to use the fire extinguisher to disinfect certain objects like vehicles, entrances to CnR events and so on. If they want to use their own vehicle they'd have to disinfect it first. If players were in their vehicles when the nuke happened, then repairing it could reward them with a special random ingredient due to repairing a contaminated vehicle.

3. Medics should get increased pay during this event (like vip) as it's a difficult situation with lots of infected players and chaos. Medics can use the hazmat skin / suit to avoid radiation.
There could be a random possibility that curing a zombie gives a special reward or ingredient?

4. Because of the fires and radiation, there are boulders / rocks around the map that need to be mined in order to obtain an ingredient only found during this event  and could be valuable for many different crafting recipes or something completely new. The sea has turned green and now fisherman has a chance of finding rare ingredients / materials, not only fish.

5. The street sweeper has to sweep the road as it's contaminated and covered in ash from the blast, this could provide random ammounts of "ash" as a new ingredient which is essential for crafting a new recipee. Apart from this, pay could be increased?

6. City Engineers need to fix buildings which have been deemed unsafe due to the nuke blast, these jobs only appear during this event* and pay could be increased or / and a chance of finding a rare ingredient in one of the cracks they have to fix. This crack could be a texture over the building like the graffity on walls, although I'm not too sure if this is possible.

*: Or any other special event like tsunami or earthquakes etc.

7. Most civillian jobs could benefit from this but I've kept it short for now as I don't want to make this too long, it needs it's own topic in my opinion.

8. As there is radiation fog, contamination, fires and so on it is essential that players cooperate to the cleanup to end / finish the nuke event (afaik it's how it was before) and doesn't need to change.

Weather effects and enviroment

Due to how players moan about fog and snow all the time, I'll say these are optional or that can be turned off*. 

- The roads could be covered in a texture of ash, similar to how roads and pavements are covered with snow when we have Xmas event.
- Ash could fall from the sky like snow does, albeit, gray.*
- The sea could be green or a realisticly colored contaminated body of water.
- There could be wind effects & sounds* with the sound of the geiget counter (vegetation sways as it is when the weather is bad, right?).
  - Fire storms could also be a thing, like rain but red and yellow
- Orange & red dark cloudy skies to bring the sense of doom after the nuke.
- Yellow fog that's not too dense so players don't get upset inmediatly 

- Cracks in the road (similar to how holes are created in City Engineer job?)
  - Or easier, a texture of a crack like graffities.
- Damaged buildings.
- Random rocks, holes and fallen trees around the map.
- Etc

Player complaints

Unfortunately with these events, some players hate change or a situation they are forced into and don't ever seem to enjoy a change in gameplay, this is a shame but not surprising.
If they want the event to end they should take part in the cleanup, as that will speed up the end of the event and it will also reward them, so on paper it should not bother them as much
as before if they are rewarded for their "patience".

Other aspects include changes to the map or enviroment but since this is just a temp event it shouldn't be too important. These events don't last long enough for it to have a meaningful impact on them, however I know for certain that some will moan whatever happens.

I'm not one of them but I'm weird and like my screen with snow, chaos etc.


If I think of anything else I'll edit my post or reply, depending. Let me know @Otto @seville_blv_1345

[Atheer]

First of all, I am positive for adding that but I would like to share my suggestions in order to improve this one.

What dragged me here is that Otto mentioned some co-operative stuff like Firefighter and Medic, Hunter & Butcher. Firefighter and Medic could be the best example though.

Squads are now, most likely useless so we could make a use of them in Roleplay. Make co-operative stuff be using squads, for example the firefighter and medic. What simply we could do, when you create a squad you can choose to either make it a regular one or for Role-playing. And, add an option to the current squads to change as well. @Otto can work on this, I believe.

[Otto]

Player complaints

Unfortunately with these events, some players hate change or a situation they are forced into and don't ever seem to enjoy a change in gameplay, this is a shame but not surprising.
If they want the event to end they should take part in the cleanup, as that will speed up the end of the event and it will also reward them, so on paper it should not bother them as much
as before if they are rewarded for their "patience".

Other aspects include changes to the map or enviroment but since this is just a temp event it shouldn't be too important. These events don't last long enough for it to have a meaningful impact on them, however I know for certain that some will moan whatever happens.

I'm not one of them but I'm weird and like my screen with snow, chaos etc.

As long as we keep most large scaled events side-wide rather than server-wide I am sure there won't be any complaints. What I aimed with this suggestion is to gather a new community that puts the fun and socializing part to be their first priority rather than farming money which most players currently prioritize. Therefore I believe that we'll gather around a considerable amount of players that are mature enough to realize the importance of such unusual events happening from time to time. Back in the day the reason why so many people attended the event without any complaints is the fact that CIT wasn't based on non-stop grinding which de-motivates people to attend such activities that slows down their progression.

First of all, I am positive for adding that but I would like to share my suggestions in order to improve this one.

What dragged me here is that Otto mentioned some co-operative stuff like Firefighter and Medic, Hunter & Butcher. Firefighter and Medic could be the best example though.

Squads are now, most likely useless so we could make a use of them in Roleplay. Make co-operative stuff be using squads, for example the firefighter and medic. What simply we could do, when you create a squad you can choose to either make it a regular one or for Role-playing. And, add an option to the current squads to change as well. @Otto can work on this, I believe.

Well I am completely ignorant in scripting so can not work in the scripting part if thats what you meant, but if you meant I could share my ideas about it yeah of course.

First of all, the reason why we need a group equivalent for this side is the fact that people won't be leaving their groups after all these years of playing the same old CIT. All the effort put into this side would go to waste if we didn't promote the side in a way that makes it easier for every single player to at least give it a chance and try all the features that will be added to this side so I believe that this addition is essential for this update.

Secondly, I'd rather creating a new group equivalent by expanding F6 rather than changing squads into roleplaying groups. Because I plan on suggesting some features that are given to roleplaying groups to improve the gameplay part of this side which could potentially annoy some squad leaders. The basic examples could be perhaps blacklisting toxic players who wish to only ruin roleplayers gameplay for preventing them from deathmatching you, maybe making whitelist work like a way of ''recognition'' system which allows you to choose groups or people that you accept to roleplay with. I have some important ideas for this part but I do not want to overcomplicate things by stating them here before I see this update live in the game to get an idea about the player quality and the level of roleplay people prefer.


Don't know why but most people prefer reaching out to me personally instead of sharing their ideas here, so I think I should share two of the things that people wanted to debate with me that I find worth mentioning. If you wish to share ideas, please do here

 - Some people told me that they are interested in the Stage 3 rather than Stage 2 as they prefer CnR experience over civilian, though I think that they might change their opinion about it considering the fact that they chose a co-op gameplay (CnR) over a single player gameplay (civilian) in the first place and what we aim to achieve with Stage 2 is a co-operative experience that offers rich content rather than a repetitive loop.

 - A dear friend of mine came up with the idea of restricting most activities in Bone County and Red County like I suggested for the Stage 3 part. Many roleplay servers prefer this kind of restriction to force players to engage more. Which is quite reasonable if there are not 500+ players playing in your server that could make the huge world of SA feel alive. Obviously they will have the ability to leave the perimeters of Bone and Red County, but most activities lead players to this part of the world.

[streat-ryder]

About that post with adding a new side I got an idea how we could reward people that play roleplay jobs/activities by giving them "Roleplay-Points" simmilar how criminals and cops getting reputitian points and arrest points, but for roleplay. As a additional reward or better said a resaon for people to fight for those points would be a score board which showcase the players that collected the most points with the order from the most to the least points.

And ofc I like this suggestion because it would add something new other than just shooting players everyday, therefore I vote positive  .

[Arran]

Ok so I replied to this topic saying I was confused and wanted a list of things to do and this is what you said:

FIRST PRIORITY

These will be the first priority as they are the essential basics of roleplaying

 x Collisions must be enabled, just like cops.

 x Being able to damage other players that are also occupied in this occupation with an update to prevent trolling and possible complaints caused by it, you'll be only able to damage your citbook friends.

 x Reducing the HP of roleplayers to 50, as 150 is ridiculously high and unrealistic. Or just 3X damage like you mentioned.
The goal must be minimizing the time that you stand idle with these interactive Co-operative jobs I suggested, to make it appealable for also casual players who are not that interested in roleplaying yet interested in somewhat realistic experience rather than a repetitive loop.

What I can think of is, scripting many CO-OP job events that are only occuring when a group of players fulfilling the requirements of the plotted event enter a marker that is made for accepting the job. The payments should be ranked in a way that promotes socializing. Like if there are 6 people required for an event to occur, the payments would be 4x while event that required 2 players would reward you with 2x each player. The examples could be like;

 - Delivering 'stuff' co-operatively in any job that requires deliveries like the actual Delivery Man. While one person drives around, the second person will unload and deliver the packages when the driver uses /engine or any other command that is suitable. Might seem like an unnecessary tweak but I as a person who chatted with Barcode while he was leveling all his civilian jobs to 10, not being able to co-operitavely work together made it a torment for us to socialize.

 - Trucker job with 2-6 players each truck having 1 driver and 1 forklift operator to load the goods before delivery. And perhaps unload them in the end if there is a possibility of placing free forklifts in the delivery points. (Recovering them out of nowhere is obviously not roleplaying)

Now that I already made my point I'll just mention the jobs that could work together on a roleplay level

 - Fire Fighter & Paramedics
 - Lumberjack & a Forklift operator if that is possible to script.
 - Hunter & Butcher
 - Two fishermans could work together to fill their Pickup Truck (Bobcat, Yosemite, Sadler, Walton) and deliver it to the destination point.
 - Some other jobs could work like the one above, like Hunter, Lumberjack, perhaps the vehicle they load might differ depending on how many players are grouping up and doing the job, like loading a truck instead of a pickup while a team of 4 lumberjacks are working.

And 3 lines in "that are also occupied in this occupation" - you haven't described in any way HOW DOES SOMEONE GET THIS OCCUPATION??? Am I adding a command? Am I adding a marker? What will it even say? Where would it be? Is this occupation going to be an "Occupation" (as in appearing on TAB meaning you can't have an actual job like "Hunter" if you're a "Roleplayer") or is it a team? What's it even going to be called? If it's a team, what color and name? There are so many unanswered questions you can't expect me to read your mind and fill in these absolutely essential details on my own.

I actually want to spend some time on this idea but if you can't give me SPECIFIC information on EXACTLY what is needed then it's never going to happen.

[Otto]

How does someone get this occupation?: With /roleplayer command like the /criminal one. My plan is to include all criminal, law, and civilian equivalents in this one single side to keep it neat. The name of the side will be ''Roleplayer'' and for the occupations; Citizens for the ones that are unemployeed (Probably the ones that just wants to roam around and chat with whomever they came across) and the ones that are working as our some sort of re-worked co-op civilian job equivalents. Let's say that they are working as Hunter, their occupation will still be displayed as Citizen as there is no need to tag people with their jobs on a roleplaying side. About the Stage 3 which will include a CnR alike gameplay (The ones that will be added later on after analyzing the player count that are interested in the new side) I can't say anything for sure yet, as my plans might be unrealistic considering the possibilities of scripting within MTA and its too early to talk about them. I would share my opinions about it but that part is actually really complex and confusing so lets skip it for the time being.

Is there going to be a marker?: If there is no other way of giving the player necessary information he/she should know about Roleplaying in general (which is essential) and what this side actually offers in CIT, yes obviously there will be a marker.

Where will it be?: I plan on restricting most activities to Bone County, Red County, and a small portion of Tierra Robada. A map that shows where are they actually located. The reason why is it'll force players to engage more and socialize as it is main reason why people are interested in this idea. Anyway for this reason, I believe that it should be in Bone County, Fort Carson (Can be seen in the map I provided) where a custom made hub will take place. The hub must be a place where people can also socialize and get some guidance from the markers. To turn it into a place where people can socialize, it requires a parking lot, perhaps some old couches that fits the old town's vibe here and there and thats it its simple as that. The reason why it should be in Fort Carson is the fact that its basically the center of the places I mentioned above.

What will be the information given in the markers?: As I don't know exactly how you'll be scripting these jobs I do not know for now. They should be written once we see it live.

Though the context should be; For the marker that basically explains the whole side which will work like the /roleplayer command - First explaining the difference between other sides and roleplaying side, second explaining what content awaits you there by first giving some examples about the co-operative jobs and then teaching them how to learn more about them (just by walking to the marker that is also going to be placed near by), third teaching the player common rules of roleplaying, and lastly roleplaying terms that are necessary to learn. Like meta-gaming and power-playing. This marker should be a different color to create color-contrast between each other to let the player know that this one is more important than others. Hierarchy-contrast could be also used to increase the effect if possible in the hub.

For the markers that explains the jobs; As the overall experience is already explained in the marker that I talked about above, they must be as simple as possible to prevent overwhelming players with a huge wall of text. First, it should give the player information what the job is about and what exactly you do in it. Second it'll lead players to co-op jobs that they can do and teach them how they can do it. Thirdly a tutorial if a volunteer works on it.

Colors of these occupations. The actual ones are, 178 34 34 #b22222 for Criminal, 30 144 255 #1e90ff for Cops, 255 215 0 #ffd700 for Civilians. As these colors now represent each side, I decided to make them similar yet different in an easily noticable level. Didn't pick one for the ''Criminal'' part that was mentioned in the Stage 3 as my vision does not include tagging criminals by coloring them red in the minimap in a roleplay based gameplay. Citizens will be 164 151 80 #a49750 and the Police Force will be 52 105 156 #34699c https://coolors.co/b22222-1e90ff-34699c-ffd700-a49750 you may check the colors here, though the clean look might confuse you so I also provided an in-game look below.

How would it look in game;


What needs to be scripted for this side;

 - Collisions will be enabled for everyone playing in this roleplayer side.

 - Everyone will be able to DM each other like in /gangster, yet players will be able to hurt only their citbook friends to prevent trollers and possible complaints that'll be created.

 - Reducing the HP to 50 or multiplying damage by 3.

 - It would be great if you could script a system where each player will get a identification card where they will be able to enter their roleplaying name and get a random created identification number that does not ever change. This will boost the roleplaying part massively once the Stage 3 is out. I'll help with the visual part if necessary

 - If you die, you'll be 'injured' which prevents you from accepting jobs and deathmatching. To prevent deathmatch, you may script something that disallows them to hold their guns when injured. Injury may be multiplied like this;
  If you get injured once, disadvantages (Not being able to get jobs or deathmatch) will apply to you for 1 minutes. You'll recover from your injury in 10 minutes. If you get injured again before you recover from the first one, the numbers will be multiplied x2, meaning 2 minutes penalty and 20 minutes to recover. This will stack over time and prevent players to turn the side into a freeroam gameplay. If a person is trolling their friend by killing them over and over again to get him injured, the player may simply remove him from his citbook. This was originally planned for stage 3 but may be essential to prevent people from deathmatching to farm kills and boost roleplay in the same time.

 -  [Debatable] Restricting the vehicles that are accessible to this side to prevent power-gaming (Powergaming is the the act of using an in-game mechanic, any external information, or a roleplay concept to favor their own character or story, and give them an unfair or unrealistic advantage.) is essential in my opinion. Cars like Super GT, Banshee, Cybertruck are not made for the countryside and desert terrain where most roleplaying activities will take place. Also they are extremely fast and good at cornering which is unrealistic. List of cars that I personally wouldn't like to ever see in roleplaying:

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Banshee, Comet, Cheetah, Hotring racers, Infernus, Sultan RS, Stafford, Hummer, Super GT, Turismo, Cybertruck, and maybe Sabre Turbo due to its unrealistic high speed

 - Creating a new group equivalent in F6 to make this side accessible for players. Players would have a hard time leaving their current groups which would lead players to keep playing the same old CIT even if they enjoyed the roleplaying side. Also we may add some features to the roleplaying groups in the future to make it easier for players to socialize, roleplay etc. I honestly don't have a proper name idea for this, your vocabulary is obviously better than mine gotta leave this part to you.

Civilian jobs: Will put the ideas in a spoiler as they were already mentioned twice in the topic, those are the things that we ask for you to script. I prioritised them and what I expect you to do is to script the first priority part for the time being. If any additional info is needed ask it here and I shall answer. If you could show us an example by scripting one of the jobs we mentioned that includes the possibilities of scripting we can think of co-operative jobs that are easy for you to script. At the moment probably most of my ideas are impossible to script that I didn't even bother mentioning them to overwhelm you.

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FIRST PRIORITY

What I can think of is, scripting many CO-OP job events that are only occuring when a group of players fulfilling the requirements of the plotted event enter a marker that is made for accepting the job. The payments should be ranked in a way that promotes socializing. Like if there are 6 people required for an event to occur, the payments would be 4x while event that required 2 players would reward you with 2x each player. The examples could be like;

 - Delivering 'stuff' co-operatively in any job that requires deliveries like the actual Delivery Man. While one person drives around, the second person will unload and deliver the packages when the driver uses /engine or any other command that is suitable. Might seem like an unnecessary tweak but I as a person who chatted with Barcode while he was leveling all his civilian jobs to 10, not being able to co-operitavely work together made it a torment for us to socialize.

 - Trucker job with 2-6 players each truck having 1 driver and 1 forklift operator to load the goods before delivery. And perhaps unload them in the end if there is a possibility of placing free forklifts in the delivery points. (Recovering them out of nowhere is obviously not roleplaying)

Now that I already made my point I'll just mention the jobs that could work together on a roleplay level

 - Fire Fighter & Paramedics
 - Lumberjack & a Forklift operator if that is possible to script.
 - Hunter & Butcher
 - Two fishermans could work together to fill their Pickup Truck (Bobcat, Yosemite, Sadler, Walton) and deliver it to the destination point.
 - Some other jobs could work like the one above, like Hunter, Lumberjack, perhaps the vehicle they load might differ depending on how many players are grouping up and doing the job, like loading a truck instead of a pickup while a team of 4 lumberjacks are working.


SECOND PRIORITY

I would say that Seville's ideas should be second priority as his larger scaled ideas require some people to stand idle while their friends are working which could bore casual players. These ideas are for pure roleplayers so they can be delayed for a while.

There could be even more jobs interacting with each other: (Seville's ideas)

- City Engineers could conduct bigger construction projects like building of bigger houses and skyscrapers or infrastructure projects like a part of a highway or a bridge. Truckers and Pilots with helicopters bring in the needed materials from a construction yard (not sure on the ability of creating larger construction project as the problem of the max. object streaming limit in MTA still remains).

- Truckers with forklift operators that deliver stuff to a storage area at the airport and then need to lift crates from the truck into a storage located at the airport. Afterwards the forklift operators help loading transport planes with the crates from the storage and the pilots deliver the crates.

- Pilots bring passengers (tourists) to the airport where Bus Drivers with tour busses or Taxi Drivers awaits them to get them to hotels etc.

- Iron miners in hunter quarry have to use explosives (similar to cave miner) to blow up a rockface and then bring the little rocks with a forklift to near-by parked Dumper. When the Dumper's capacity has been filled to maximum the Truckers inside the Dumpers need to drive the rocks to a steel factory.

- Firefighters come to a highway where a mass collision between cars and trucks happened and they have to rescue peds trapped inside cars with a lockpick-minigame to simulate breaking doors open with a fire-axe. If gasoline trucks or truck with hazardous cargo are involved they have to prevent it from (self) igniting as such an explosion can kill everyone in a certain radius of the accident. Medics have to lead those rescued peds to their ambulance and after three peds they need to drive to the next hospital and then eventually return back to the scene. News reporters have to make photos from the scene. After all peds are rescued and fire put out, mechanics tow the demolished cars away to a repair shop/junkyard.

- I don't know if that is even possible to script but I will mention it here anyway: A cargo ship has a mechanical failure and it threatens to drift onto the nearest shore. Mechanics need to fix the engine of the ship while Fisherman use their boats to prevent the cargo ship from drifting too fast onto the shore. After the engine has been fixed the cargo ship stop to drift and several fisherman use their boats to haul the cargo ship to the nearest shipyard.


THIRD PRIORITY

And lastly third priority, large scaled events suggested by Seville. They are obviously third priority at the moment as we don't even know the usual player count we'll get on this occupation.

Large-scale interactive events:
Interactive events of a bigger scale can be interesting as it requires two or more jobs and alot of people (+10 and even more) to fulfill those jobs. As it should happen very rarely (between 2 weeks up to 2 months) it should be lucrative being part of such a large-scale event. As those events can have a longer duration till it is finished it should happen on weekends when people have more free-time.

Events by CEM's/Admins: (I would rather adding a role like ''Roleplay Manager'' equilavent of SO/PC/CBs that could trigger events like these if he/she notices considerable amount of active players at the time
I even think of large-scale events like this:

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. In this video there was a event which simulates a nuclear attack in where people have to be evacuated to a bunker and clean the radiation afterwards with a Sweeper while wearing HAZMAT suits. As I see @Rabbid Rabbit in this video too he could explain a bit more about the event shown in this video and possible ideas around it as I have never been in such an event. Events like this could be triggered by CEM's/Admins but with a limit per week/month.

My interactive event for the RP-based jobs can be done about a occurement of a natural disaster and it's aftermath like for example when a hurricane hits the town (for example in this case San Fierro):
-During a hurricane firefighter squads (as their duties are not just limited about extinguish fire) have to save peds from houses, cars etc. and police officers have to close the main roads with roadblocks and eventually fortify a hospital and set up an evacuation point at a stadium (SF have both of it). I think Bus Drivers and Pilots with helicopters can be used to evacuate civilians too. A timer would indicate when the hurricane make a landfall and before that everyone involved in this event and other players should seek shelter in the fortified stadium as they can die outside.
- After the natural disaster is gone lumberjacks have to cut trees that have fallen onto the streets. Mechanics checks the cars around the streets and see if a vehicle can be repaired or has to be towed to the nearest junkyard. Street Cleaner/Waste Manager have to clean the roads, damage on the infrastructure like parts of the highway or the bridge that has to be repaired by city engineers. Houses that are on fire needs to be put out by firefighters and eventually the damaged houses need a repair afterwards by city engineers. While everyone focuses on fixing the damage the police officers patrol the streets to stop looters who try to streal from markets around the city and news reporters have to shoot the photos from certain places. After everything is done the police officers removes the road block from the main roads and the event is over.
=> events like this should be a (very) rare event as this is very complex and let it happening too often can ruin the fun. That's why this should occur every 1 or 2 month IMO. And in this event even CnR elements can be integrated.

If the co-operative jobs will work in a way where we go to a marker and accept jobs with our friends after meeting the requirements of the events, a place like the Employement Office for this side is necessary. Could be located somewhere around Fort Carson. Would work similar to Bounty Boards most games have like Borderlands.

Rules of this side: Common sense and common rules of roleplaying will apply to this side. Though some adjustments could be made after analyzing the players. Its pointless for me to write a list of rules here before experiencing the gameplay.

SO/PC/CB Equivalent for this side: It would be great as most of the current Staffs and Guides won't be able to assist new players in this side properly as this is completely new and roleplay is not something everyone is interested about. The duty may be called ''Roleplayer Manager'' or whatever name you find suitable for this duty. The main purpose of Roleplayer Managers would be both guiding and taking care of roleplay related issues.


Also changed the title to side instead of occupation as the idea evolved.


If there are missing parts that I forgotten, simply post them here and I will answer them. As I am not aware of the process behind scripting you are going through my answers may not be as satisfying as you expected. Give me some examples where my explanation lacked information and what exactly is needed so we can help each other.

[zurq]

Uh wow... You explained everything well, and I am absolutely positive on these improvements you'd suggested.

[Arran]

Well you started off giving useful details, then you went off on some fantasy listing all these immensely time consuming / complex ideas which after reading made me feel so demotivated I wanted to lock the suggestion. So how about try again with just the basics.