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Ingame Community => News and Updates => Topic started by: Arran on 27 08, 2013, 10:28:43 pm

Title: Appreciation Day
Post by: Arran on 27 08, 2013, 10:28:43 pm
It was my birthday recently and everybody was like "happy birthday!" but I didn't like it because to me it seems like undeserved attention for a day, what did I do? I was alive for 7670 days, so what? Aren't there any better reasons to celebrate somebody other than the fact they were born on a certain day in the year?

I said that rather than everyone saying "happy birthday" which is basically meaningless how about we say some other words? "Thank you". "Thank you for..." I would much prefer people thank me for example, creating CIT than saying happy birthday, it would actually have some meaning then. (Oh and don't think of PMing me now)

Wouldn't you prefer that too? People appreciating what you've done for them whether you helped them, been a good friend or simply existed. But there's a problem. We have birthdays but we don't have an appreciation day.

So I say, let's have our own appreciation day. Just say thanks to people whenever you get an opportunity, for a day. Although only we'll know about appreciation day, who's to say you can't say thanks to people outside CIT? Just tell them it's appreciation day! Using the Internet, we have the power to cause a chain reaction around the world, a reaction of appreciation showing. All it takes is you, to show others your appreciation.

So on Sunday the 1st of September join me in a day of appreciation showing. I want to see the forum, ingame and IRC covered in appreciation for each other!

THANK YOU FOR READING!
Title: Re: Appreciation Day
Post by: Dave on 27 08, 2013, 10:32:11 pm
Let this be a notice all around the forums and ingame, it'll be awesome. How about you make a really annoying advertisement ingame about that day (not so annoying, please.)
Title: Re: Appreciation Day
Post by: Evil4N on 27 08, 2013, 10:34:56 pm
Nice initiative alright. (See I can make positive posts in the end lol)
Title: Re: Appreciation Day
Post by: MentosMint on 27 08, 2013, 10:36:53 pm
Good idea, I would love to see this. :)
Title: Re: Appreciation Day
Post by: GLAYIS on 27 08, 2013, 10:37:09 pm
Wouldn't you prefer that too?

Yes if I were you I would prefer a thank you to a happy birthday although its still nice to say.
Hope its going to be a good appreciation day, everybody thanking, without trouble or any bad thing happening.
Title: Re: Appreciation Day
Post by: rounder on 27 08, 2013, 10:47:00 pm
For me I don't belive in B-Days already but I just belive in the fact that you must congratulate your friends or to the people that you know In that day because if you didn't they may think that you're a hater or something like, nvm.

Moreover you're always been thankful for creating this server and handling it for about 3 years now, so much words to say but lets wait to the 1st of September.
Title: Re: Appreciation Day
Post by: Cherry on 27 08, 2013, 10:47:27 pm
Lets make something big out of it! Not a huge party or something, but telling people "thank you" instead if " :o!!!!!!!!!" or something. We can do it  :)
Title: Re: Appreciation Day
Post by: BabY on 27 08, 2013, 10:50:21 pm
Great inspiration! Hope this becomes a turning point for CITizens to appreciate each other!
Title: Re: Appreciation Day
Post by: superr on 27 08, 2013, 11:26:05 pm
Nice idea to do it Arran
I'll be there...
Title: Re: Appreciation Day
Post by: Kavzor on 27 08, 2013, 11:29:40 pm
Nice idea to do it Arran
I'll be there...
it's about being in it, spread the word, it's the day of appreciation, social media, face to face, you name it, thank your friends for exsisting
Title: Re: Appreciation Day
Post by: Rabbid Rabbit on 27 08, 2013, 11:37:52 pm
Honestly, this is something I wished for lol. Also, when I told you '' happy bday '' I tried to convey a sense of gratitude for all that you've done for me and us ... Anyway.

But yeah, I know what you mean. We are the best server with the best community, but sometimes ... sometimes I feel there's not enough love for the players, sometimes players are like '' f you '' between each other, or they are a bit ... disrespectfull to each other, if they don't resort to flames ...

The players make this community, also ... the devs make the scripts which power all our events and stuff, I also feel that some people, or a sum of people are totally unaware of what it's like to script a 300 line event or something, it's like ... they don't care or could care less.

In some sense I feel they take us for granted. Admittedly, not all staff are developers, some are not skilled enough and do other things. But at the same time, those who don't script aren't given the same ammount of respect ....

We might not script like you or other devs do, but we do other things and lately I've seen and felt that some players think it's '' piss easy '' being an admin ... but if you take your job seriously and look for the best, take your time with each player to ensure the best '' time here '' then it's not easy and it can be stressfull, if you really give your time to each player ...

Anyways ... basically we need this day. It was something I wanted and I'm sure many others did aswell ... We are all needed here, we all have a role here, including the players, including ... -everyone-. We should all recognise our roles within this community and be thankfull many of us contribute like some do, while not all of us are super usefull ...

We all have a purpous here and we all should be thankfull we made the current community we have, but ... we can always be a better, nicer and friendly community, we should keep trying to be:

The best we can be.
Title: Re: Appreciation Day
Post by: CLA$$IC' on 27 08, 2013, 11:41:49 pm
Nice idea Arran. I will be there. but at what time.
Title: Re: Appreciation Day
Post by: CorkoKiller on 27 08, 2013, 11:48:21 pm
I dissagree to this entire post while normaly I aggree with yah!
Your birthday is celebrated because you are alive and healthy for another year
With that said, we should appreciate eachother every day!
Before you know it, it's your last...
Title: Re: Appreciation Day
Post by: ElTongaZ on 28 08, 2013, 12:03:24 am
Not sure if in everyone's country happens the same, but in mine's, we have a friends day, which is pretty much like this, saying thanks for being a friend, being there.
Quote
we should appreciate eachother every day!
I agree with this, but you know, all that spam... ::)

Quote
Before you know it, it's your last...
Phrase to remember
Title: Re: Appreciation Day
Post by: Arran on 28 08, 2013, 12:43:11 am
Your birthday is celebrated because you are alive and healthy for another year

There is nothing special about living another 365 days though.

With that said, we should appreciate eachother every day!

We should and most people do say thanks for stuff but appreciation day is special because we will say thanks regardless of whether somebody did something recently for us or not we'll be saying thanks to people for simply seeing them. If you want to take it even further you can think about all the things we take for granted in our lives, like saying thanks to the billions of transistors in our CPU, taps that spurt out clean water or the billions of bacteria that live in our body and keep us alive. Things we'd never even think about on a daily basis.
Title: Re: Appreciation Day
Post by: DeadlySehse. on 28 08, 2013, 12:51:37 am
That was a great inspiration, I would really want to thank a lot of people, to whom I owe them what I am or what I have became right now. I was thinking of a script of simple GUI with that has the players names, and anyone IG should select the player and choose a draft of a good looking card which contains a heart for example then he types in the letter to the people whom he wants to thank, would be great, I know we have Sms but this will feel special <3.
Title: Re: Appreciation Day
Post by: Rakyat on 28 08, 2013, 01:59:41 am
Very good inspiration Arran, I'll have to thank many people...
I hope that most people will forget their problems with others for this day and the other days onwards.
Title: Re: Appreciation Day
Post by: baptista on 28 08, 2013, 02:15:56 am
The day of your birthday is when your family, your friends, and you're grateful for being born, we have to see as a special day because you were born of this and a great joy to your family and later to your friends.

We are all born with a purpose and a path for running, each has its special way of living and getting along with others.

Our friends are those who are there when no one else is, they hear us and advise the friend does not distinguishes race, culture, religion because deep down we are all equal ...

I think it's an excellent idea to do the "Appreciation day", maybe one day we'll all be friends without discrepancies.

sorry for my emotional words.
Title: Re: Appreciation Day
Post by: Corleone on 28 08, 2013, 03:00:26 am
I'm gonna appreciate you so hard!
Title: Re: Appreciation Day
Post by: psyKapa on 28 08, 2013, 04:12:28 am
Lets then spread the word. Thank you for your idea.
Title: Re: Appreciation Day
Post by: Irals on 28 08, 2013, 04:20:21 am
WoW...
Amazing now we have a celebrity day... Every year.
from mistakes comes new ideas...
Title: Re: Appreciation Day
Post by: Hitman47 on 28 08, 2013, 05:24:11 am
Thanks for your creative idea , from now I will apply this idea on everyone when he/she has his/her birthday.
I am sure that telling thanks to do them and praising them is much better than saying "3 words" (Happy = Birth= Day)
Unluckily I will miss this day due to ban. Good luck  :)
Title: Re: Appreciation Day
Post by: CorkoKiller on 28 08, 2013, 05:34:23 am
Quote
There is nothing special about living another 365 days though.
.

Well in these 365 days I wouldn't want to miss all the great oppertunities I get everyday
And I wouldn't want people to miss me either
Thats why I am thankfull that I am alive to celebrate my birthday every year
You could say.... I appreciate life huehue

Quote
We should and most people do say thanks for stuff but appreciation day is special because we will say thanks regardless of whether somebody did something recently for us or not we'll be saying thanks to people for simply seeing them. If you want to take it even further you can think about all the things we take for granted in our lives, like saying thanks to the billions of transistors in our CPU, taps that spurt out clean water or the billions of bacteria that live in our body and keep us alive. Things we'd never even think about on a daily basis.

Indeed, always appreciate the little things in life, my girlfriend does that too, i'd lose her if she didn't :-X

Title: Re: Appreciation Day
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Title: Re: Appreciation Day
Post by: Evil4N on 28 08, 2013, 08:38:16 am
Ahhwell, it is obvious CIT-Staff takes much interests into "appreciation" since they are punishing players for being "ungrateful" lol. So yeah, days like "appreciation day" will hopefully decrease the amount of players being punished for being ungratefull.

As for myself; I think I got punished two times for ranting at the developers for making those anti-law updates  C:-)
Title: Re: Appreciation Day
Post by: Susano on 28 08, 2013, 10:21:33 am
Im confused now, do I say Thank you for CIT or do I say happy birthday CIT
Title: Re: Appreciation Day
Post by: Aditya.N on 28 08, 2013, 10:39:36 am
Arran, you just reminded me of that guy who was my best friend and my first friend as well. He left MTA but still I got FB as a communicative source. I got a reason to call him back to the server.  ;D
Title: Re: Appreciation Day
Post by: prolimer on 28 08, 2013, 11:02:21 am
School starts right on 1st September. Tough I hope I can be there in the afternoon :P

The only problem is that brain damaged people will spam the chat "gif mi moni I loves u"
Title: Re: Appreciation Day
Post by: y.emre on 28 08, 2013, 12:18:14 pm
waiting for Sunday the 1st of September! , also my b-day is in 9 of september but no care for me .
Title: Re: Appreciation Day
Post by: qwertyuiop21 on 28 08, 2013, 12:37:23 pm
"let's be the start of something rather than waiting for something to happen" -ENGINEER

 :P :P :P :P
Title: Re: Appreciation Day
Post by: Terminator on 28 08, 2013, 12:53:26 pm
I'll be there appreciating all c;
Title: Re: Appreciation Day
Post by: GamerFTW on 28 08, 2013, 02:15:19 pm
I understand and I agree, this would be a very nice thing. By the way, I have been taking a look at the 'News:' thing at the top of the forum, which is, most of the time empty these days. So why not write there about this day? would be nice :)
Title: Re: Appreciation Day
Post by: Berke. on 28 08, 2013, 04:03:15 pm
Not bad idea, our own "Appreciation" day, sounds cool. Thanks Arran. Waiting for 1st September  ::)
Title: Re: Appreciation Day
Post by: StevieFTW on 28 08, 2013, 04:35:10 pm
You can always start small today :)
Title: Re: Appreciation Day
Post by: Rocked on 28 08, 2013, 04:38:59 pm
Hopefully I will be back before this happens, so I can't wait ;D ;D
Title: Re: Appreciation Day
Post by: Ryan. on 28 08, 2013, 05:35:14 pm
We can posibally make new topics on board like?
Title: Re: Appreciation Day
Post by: madixoye on 28 08, 2013, 09:23:56 pm
The 1st of Sept.. God it's my freakin birthday... haha.. but who cares! anyways, in be half if 6G family! I appreciate you all in advance .. Spread some Love

Salute to the Staff Team

Title: Re: Appreciation Day
Post by: Mashupper on 29 08, 2013, 12:07:48 am
I didn't wish happy Bday, and it is kind o flate for it but, there you go arran <3 <3 <3 <3HAPPY BIRTHDAY!!!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: Appreciation Day
Post by: ptsousa on 29 08, 2013, 12:51:37 am
why ban me for I report a staff for muted me for nothing (i habe put a question in support (help) and the staff xb0x muted me 10 hours and I report and pedobear habe ban me 2 days WHYYYYYYYYY ????

 :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :(
Title: Re: Appreciation Day
Post by: TrickStar on 29 08, 2013, 12:53:09 am
well arran I read most of what u wrote up there and I was like WOOW and  :o

But you are kinda right and here is your sentence(s)

Arran.
Without you there wouldnt have been CiT: Community of Integrity and Transperency
beside my family,my price for best in class, my PS3 this Community is the best what happened in my life
at first I was a rule breaker yea sorry for that was just a kid with bad kid behaviour but now I changed (exept some punishs ofc)
Without you I wouldnt have my best friend Alex who gives me advices and tipps on everything I can really trust him
Without you I wouldnt know what a Biker is, A criminal Is, a cop is, and most of all what a Noob is :) I only knew that in CiT xD
Dear Arran you have achieved this great Achievement of one of the best GTA Multiplayer server/Mode in history .
Without you we couldnt breach the 1300Peak and make a record of GTA SA MP History. And ofc get looots of money to spend on useless and usefull stuff.

Thanks Arran you have done a great job.

Attention: Theese words go to all Staff members and ex. Staff members WHO WERE loyal to the server and not like: you are all idiots I am leaving this place.

You guys are great. Even tough there isnt a 100% chance of every staff and ex.staff to read this. I still got hope and I hope you read and or reply to this reply.

TrickStar
Title: Re: Appreciation Day
Post by: Rocky# on 29 08, 2013, 03:57:00 am
I don't see how this can hurt, it's a pretty nice idea. Showing appreciation to one another is always good.
Title: Re: Appreciation Day
Post by: rockerA on 29 08, 2013, 06:59:48 pm
No doubt a awesome idea, hardly can wait for it going to make a list for that now,
Appreciating is a great think so why not create a topic in General chat Like appreciate the person above you or something like that?? Just a suggestion

anyways waiting for it :D
Title: Re: Appreciation Day
Post by: TheAmine on 29 08, 2013, 09:43:48 pm
After reading this, I realized that I'm not a thankful person, I barely even thank my mom for cooking me dinner or doing anything for... So yeah, time to thank people...Thank you to all the people I've known in my 2 years journey in CIT. Thank you for reminding us to be thankful, Arran.
Title: Re: Appreciation Day
Post by: R-mike on 30 08, 2013, 01:55:37 am
Happy birth day Arran and thanks for making cit server , when first I entered it I was like what is this , and my English skills were 0 no grammar no words no nothing all what I knew in that time was ok it was like what is your name? ok , who are you ? Ok , and after playing I have meet some Arabic people that know English and have a nice English skills and the teaches me basics and then I talked to English people and the teacher more and so it went like this tell today , my English skills as people in Arab rate : 10/10+++ and in here 8/10 xD I am now from top 10000 English in skills in school to Top1 :D ty very much Arran for making this great server !
Title: Re: Appreciation Day
Post by: Arran on 30 08, 2013, 11:46:46 am
I'm glad that you benefited in real life from a game. Though more people probably avoided education to play the game, unfortunately.
Title: Re: Appreciation Day
Post by: Hitman47 on 30 08, 2013, 12:31:15 pm
I don't know if you are the first one to have feeling like this but it would be much more better if this idea can spread outside our Community also and everyone can celebrate this day as Appreciation Day.
Title: Re: Appreciation Day
Post by: ZanSlovenia on 30 08, 2013, 01:09:03 pm
I don't know if you are the first one to have feeling like this but it would be much more better if this idea can spread outside our Community also and everyone can celebrate this day as Appreciation Day.
Spread it around on all social media you have/use. Give everyone opportunity to celebrate this day and appreciate what was given to them.
Title: Re: Appreciation Day
Post by: BoredVenus17 on 30 08, 2013, 02:41:12 pm
To appreciate each other sounds great. On that issue we're also united.
Since CIT protected my virginity, thanks for this too.

If your actions inspire others to dream more, do more, and become more, you are the leader.
-John Quincy Adams-
Title: Re: Appreciation Day
Post by: Alone on 30 08, 2013, 03:00:10 pm
This post reminded me that there are many people around me who I should thank.
Not just IRL, My friends IG also, I can't imagine CIT without my best friends.
It's really great idea, I'll try to be there.
Title: Re: Appreciation Day
Post by: Cinque on 30 08, 2013, 03:27:08 pm
hope I can attend this day,will be very interesting,also may be a peak happens :)
Title: Re: Appreciation Day
Post by: CloudChaos on 30 08, 2013, 03:37:46 pm
(http://i.imgur.com/dlRwXSZ.jpg)
Many thanks to all CIT contributors.
Title: Re: Appreciation Day
Post by: Ex_TcR on 30 08, 2013, 05:34:06 pm
Well I am thankful to God, who gave me everything without asking, I'm fine and having fun everywhere. I'm thankful to all those people who taught me any single thing, in real life or here. I'm thankful to those who helped me with anything , In real life and In-game too. I'm thankful to my Mom, she did alot for us.

I'm Thankful to Arran, because of whom we are playing here (With each other) we got alot of good friends without searching everywhere. I've never ever played any Online game before.

I'm thankful to my brother "Ryan98" who helped me with some stuffs. I'm Thankful to all of my Best Friends, PedoBear,Glenno, FunkSoul etc who are good with meh, helped me alot.

Most of all i'm thankful to NemO who gave me Supporter (for which I did 7 months' hardwork). He don't even know me know I think :/

I am thankful ....

Title: Re: Appreciation Day
Post by: zola on 30 08, 2013, 07:13:17 pm
You're right, people just say happy b-day, but they dont know why, thanking someone by the good things looks more fair.

So, thank you Arran, you're responsible for one of the moments that I had fun, I really enjoyned this server.
Title: Re: Appreciation Day - May I? For Every Day :D A Very Merry Unbirthday
Post by: BRATTY69 on 30 08, 2013, 10:09:57 pm
As I felt I had a birthday curse...I always liked the "Unbirthday Song"
My big sister had all the great birthday parties for some reason...even one on TV when she was very small (before I was born so YES I wasn't even invited XD). Imagine my pleasure that an internet search on Bratty's Birthday on CIT has result - http://cit2.net/index.php?topic=80461.0 (http://cit2.net/index.php?topic=80461.0)
So...in Appreciation, everyday - when you have a moment to sing it:
A very merry unbirthday to me
 To who?
 To me
 Oh you!
 A very merry unbirthday to you
 Who me?
 Yes, you!
 Oh, me!
 Let's all congratulate us with another cup of tea
 A very merry unbirthday to you!
 Now, statistics prove, prove that you've one birthday
 Imagine, just one birthday every year
 Ah, but there are three hundred and sixty four unbirthdays!
 Precisely why we're gathered here to cheer
 A very merry unbirthday to you, to you
 To me?
 To you!
 A very merry unbirthday
 For me?
 For you!
 Now blow the candle out my dear
 And make your wish come true
 A merry merry unbirthday to you!
***For everyone who makes CIT a great place : )
Title: Re: Appreciation Day
Post by: unLimited999 on 30 08, 2013, 11:53:58 pm
only one day left , who care ? please lets start to do something , really I wonder what will happen..
Title: Re: Appreciation Day
Post by: Aqib khan on 31 08, 2013, 06:57:18 pm
BTW nice idea arran :)
Title: Re: Appreciation Day
Post by: killerso123 on 31 08, 2013, 07:21:55 pm
Nice idea and Happy birthday
Title: Re: Appreciation Day
Post by: AL3FREET on 31 08, 2013, 10:01:59 pm
nice idea i'll try to be there 1st sep is 1st school day :(
happy B-day
Title: Re: Appreciation Day
Post by: yusufcasper on 01 09, 2013, 12:55:30 pm
What we will do now ? today 1st september .. I hope will be good.
Title: Re: Appreciation Day
Post by: Rover on 01 09, 2013, 03:15:05 pm
Nice idea. Today I want to thank Glenno and Hidde  ;)
Title: Re: Appreciation Day
Post by: Arran on 01 09, 2013, 04:37:58 pm
What we will do now ? today 1st september .. I hope will be good.

We say thank you to people.
Title: Re: Appreciation Day
Post by: Nikita3 on 01 09, 2013, 05:24:23 pm
I'll start with Arran


Arran, Thank you for creating this wonderful server and being the reason why I've got people whom I love

To every staff, thank you for wasting your time, keeping rule breakers away from the server and helping players in game and on the forum

To everyone thanks for every single good thing you've done in your life, thank you (:
Title: Re: Appreciation Day
Post by: larger_s on 01 09, 2013, 05:32:46 pm
Arran - Thank you for creating a successful and big server.

Staffs - Thank you for taking care of the server.

Title: Re: Appreciation Day
Post by: iPlayerify on 01 09, 2013, 06:24:55 pm
To Arran, CIT Developers, contributors.

Thank you so much for this incredible server, I have created my own online career by playing on this server, and I'm enjoying it a lot. I have made a lots of relationships on this server, I earned respect from players.

I can't thank more than that.
Title: Re: Appreciation Day
Post by: Hellsing on 01 09, 2013, 06:40:00 pm
Thanks to Arran for your idea and CIT

Thanks to Staffs

Thanks to TaskForce

Thanks to Laws

Thanks to Criminals

Thanks to Civilians

Thanks to everyone
Title: Re: Appreciation Day
Post by: yusufcasper on 01 09, 2013, 07:02:03 pm
Thanks Arran , for this idea and also for creating this nice server. I hope you will arrive all your targets ..
If who helped me in this server , I wanted to say this : thanks , if what you do against to people , I hope you are will take all your done..
Title: Re: Appreciation Day
Post by: T@ZoO on 01 09, 2013, 07:47:35 pm
It was my birthday recently and everybody was like "happy birthday!" but I didn't like it because to me it seems like undeserved attention for a day, what did I do? I was alive for 7670 days, so what? Aren't there any better reasons to celebrate somebody other than the fact they were born on a certain day in the year?

I said that rather than everyone saying "happy birthday" which is basically meaningless how about we say some other words? "Thank you". "Thank you for..." I would much prefer people thank me for example, creating CIT than saying happy birthday, it would actually have some meaning then. (Oh and don't think of PMing me now)

Wouldn't you prefer that too? People appreciating what you've done for them whether you helped them, been a good friend or simply existed. But there's a problem. We have birthdays but we don't have an appreciation day.

So I say, let's have our own appreciation day. Just say thanks to people whenever you get an opportunity, for a day. Although only we'll know about appreciation day, who's to say you can't say thanks to people outside CIT? Just tell them it's appreciation day! Using the Internet, we have the power to cause a chain reaction around the world, a reaction of appreciation showing. All it takes is you, to show others your appreciation.

So on Sunday the 1st of September join me in a day of appreciation showing. I want to see the forum, ingame and IRC covered in appreciation for each other!

THANK YOU FOR READING!
do for us good thing like unban all player :p
Title: Re: Appreciation Day
Post by: Hellsing on 01 09, 2013, 07:49:34 pm
This is not good believe me :D
Title: Re: Appreciation Day
Post by: prolimer on 01 09, 2013, 07:52:40 pm
do for us good thing like unban all player :p

haha I don't think that would be so good :P
Title: Re: Appreciation Day
Post by: T@ZoO on 01 09, 2013, 08:06:17 pm
haha I don't think that would be so good :P
tell arran to do it and you will see that CIT will be more than 1000 player and we will get free kills :D
Title: Re: Appreciation Day
Post by: Moez on 01 09, 2013, 10:30:18 pm
Great opportunity to tell people how you feel towards them, and thank them for everything they've done ;)

Uhm I would like to thank every single staff member and developer for making this amazing community and keeping it alive.
Also thanks to the donators who are donating to keep this server online.
Title: Re: Appreciation Day
Post by: Arran on 02 09, 2013, 01:06:49 am
I only saw people appreciating on IRC, but yeah at least we did it.
Title: Re: Appreciation Day
Post by: rafsanahmed3 on 02 09, 2013, 10:44:21 am
well I know nobody wont say something to me because many of my friend have left CIT and who I know don't even remember who I am. that's why I wish if I wish I could know somebody who will remember just my name.  :-\
Title: Re: Appreciation Day
Post by: powderae on 02 09, 2013, 02:27:21 pm
I want say THANK you to all noobs and all who get banned on CIT. you the reason we have some many good admins and all know that more admins=better server  8)