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Ingame Community => News and Updates => Topic started by: Arran on 21 03, 2014, 03:02:25 pm

Title: How did they get your password?
Post by: Arran on 21 03, 2014, 03:02:25 pm
It's clear that account 'hacking' is a significant problem, a problem that can be solved with additional account access protection mechanisms.

Layer 1 is obviously your password, every account has a password.
Layer 2 doesn't exist for us, but some servers use a serial limitation system

Serial limitation means that you can only login to your account from your computer. This has 2 main problems:

Problem 1: What if you have multiple computers?

Proposed solution: A GUI grid where you can add/remove serials from.

Problem 2: What if your computer breaks? (Meaning you can't add your new serial to the grid)

Proposed solution: First of all we can use email confirmation to confirm that the new serial is yours but if you don't have an email set or it's inaccessible then we need a way to get back on and I propose a 48 hour wait, that way a 'hacker' would need to wait 48 hours and if in that time the real account owner logs on, the 48 hour countdown is aborted and the account owner is informed that someone tried to login from another serial and therefore they should change their password.

This is what I want to do, to stop accounts from being 'hacked' so easily. But serial limitation isn't the only way of doing it, maybe there's a better way? But to find out if there is a better or easier way of solving this account stealing problem, I need to know why layer 1 fails for so many people.

If your account has ever been 'hacked' that means that you somehow let someone get your password, post here explaining how they knew your password. If you were an idiot and actually thought those "CIT cheat" websites that ask for your username and password were real, then say so here.

Alternative Layer 2 Implementations
Title: Re: How did they get your password?
Post by: Ex_TcR on 21 03, 2014, 03:13:04 pm
Long time ago, a guy posted a link in shoutbox, saying "If you want free drugs, go here" idk how many people got trapped but I didn't open it, maybe some hackers knows that how to fool someone. Newb hackers (I think) use links thingy, like sending a link to a guy saying check this or any trap and because of what, they gets the password by scripting/programming the system etc.


anyways, I have a question, what if I am using random computers to be in touch with forums 24/7 ? I mean I aam very active .. I use to open forums from different computers. is it possible to add soemthing liek "Security Code" when we log in via another computer? or we can get a confirmation code .. will be sent to our e-mail(If we're using one) and we'll copy it from our e-mail.

Quote
Proposed solution: A GUI grid where you can add/remove serials from.
its a good idea but, if our computer breaks, as I mentioned above, Is it possible to make it so that we have to confirm teh new computer via our E-Mail..?

sorry.. mistook.

Quote
a problem that can be solved with additional account access protection mechanisms.
Title: Re: How did they get your password?
Post by: RedDrifter on 21 03, 2014, 03:14:23 pm
I had my account hacked once because I had  the same password for other games too and I gave my password to a friend on the other game and after sometime we had an argument and he tried to steal all my money luclky I didn't have much back then so I really didn't care and kept on playing.
Title: Re: How did they get your password?
Post by: BabY on 21 03, 2014, 03:17:06 pm
For a better way of protecting account password... What about making a new e-mail PIN key / pass key or whatever, that CANNOT be the same as account password, and restrict password changes to the associated e-mail only (Send new password confirmation, so it becomes harder for attackers to change password?

The only con is that if the user uses the same password for his associated e-mail, but wouldn't that be his fault for not securing it?

anyways, I have a question, what if I am using random computers to be in touch with forums 24/7 ? I mean I aam very active .. I use to open forums from different computers. is it possible to add soemthing liek "Security Code" when we log in via another computer? or we can get a confirmation code .. will be sent to our e-mail(If we're using one) and we'll copy it from our e-mail.
 its a good idea but, if our computer breaks, as I mentioned above, Is it possible to make it so that we have to confirm teh new computer via our E-Mail..?
As long as you don't use the same password you use in game for forum, there's nothing harmful can happen to you
Title: Re: How did they get your password?
Post by: Arran on 21 03, 2014, 03:17:58 pm
its a good idea but, if our computer breaks, as I mentioned above, Is it possible to make it so that we have to confirm teh new computer via our E-Mail..?

Did you even read the whole topic..?
Title: Re: How did they get your password?
Post by: BoDy on 21 03, 2014, 03:25:22 pm
A guy PMed me with "can you explain this post to me <link>" I opened the link and found a "replica" of our forum but I'm logged off, and you need to log in to be able to see wbat he's talking about and he fooled more than 10 players in that day
Evetually he got banned on forum because I reported'em to Kaka
Title: Re: How did they get your password?
Post by: Arran on 21 03, 2014, 03:31:59 pm
A guy PMed me with "can you explain this post to me <link>" I opened the link and found a "replica" of our forum but I'm logged off, and you need to log in to be able to see wbat he's talking about and he fooled more than 10 players in that day
Evetually he got banned on forum because I reported'em to Kaka

Then maybe all these accounts being hacked is just a sign of player stupidity because:

1. People should know to check the URL when something like that happens.
2. People shouldn't use the same password for different things.

Though if this is true and most accounts are 'phished' (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phishing) then it means that a secondary question / password would be solve the problem unless players were truly stupid and also told the 'hacker' the secondary password.
Title: Re: How did they get your password?
Post by: BoDy on 21 03, 2014, 03:36:13 pm
Then maybe all these accounts being hacked is just a sign of player stupidity because:

1. People should know to check the URL when something like that happens.
2. People shouldn't use the same password for different things.

Though if this is true and most accounts are 'phished' (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phishing) then it means that a secondary question / password would be solve the problem unless players were truly stupid and also told the 'hacker' the secondary password.

And use a different password for their forum account, just incase.
Title: Re: How did they get your password?
Post by: sandisk on 21 03, 2014, 04:10:53 pm
If this would become real, will it be mandatory ? all in all it's an good suggestion for those who actually "need" it.

Imo the "Hacking" isnt a big problem, let the stupid people pay for their stupidity. When you read all the "I got hacked" threads it's just  :fp:
Title: Re: How did they get your password?
Post by: Arran on 21 03, 2014, 04:12:03 pm
If this would become real, will it be mandatory ?

No.
Title: Re: How did they get your password?
Post by: VazZ on 21 03, 2014, 04:23:32 pm
Though if this is true and most accounts are 'phished' (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phishing) then it means that a secondary question / password would be solve the problem unless players were truly stupid and also told the 'hacker' the secondary password.

From what I've seen when occasionally scanning through the posts where people complain about being hacked or how their accounts were banned and they then claim someone else was on the account, I think it's at least as much aware password sharing as well.

People are just sharing their accounts password with one of their 500 friends or cousins or whatever they claim to be (for some reason they meet their relatives ingame instead of in real life but OK human stupidity is a different topic, at least I wouldn't believe someone who sends me an SMS "Hi iam your cousin give password ill give stats") and then trust them instantly.
So the idea that someone brought up above saying there could be an additional confirmation code when logging in is actually completely useless to say it polite, because that's just another password. If I gave my "friend" my password to log in to my account and I know he'll also need a confirmation code, I would just give them that code too, otherwise it wouldn't make any sense to give them the password if they can't log in.

And that doesn't only go for the aware password sharing part, the code would also be useless for the phishing part, because when people know they'll need a code (in form of a sort of secondary password) they would obviously ask for that too in their fake login form..
Title: Re: How did they get your password?
Post by: sandisk on 21 03, 2014, 04:24:44 pm
No.

But still if people get phished they'll probably lose more than their MTA account, for example their e-mail password.
Title: Re: How did they get your password?
Post by: VazZ on 21 03, 2014, 04:29:37 pm
But still if people get phished they'll probably lose more than their MTA account, for example their e-mail password.

Not necessarily.. That's only applying to the people who have the ignorance to use the same password everywhere, and to those: If they get phished (which requires stupidity as stated above) and then also use that password for anything else, they clearly never listened to the warnings over the years and then their loss is well deserved. Those people shouldn't be expecting to not lose all their internet accounts when they're already stupid enough to give away their password (aware or not) and then use the same password everywhere.

Additionally their e-mail passwords and anything else not related to that is nothing Arran has to take care of, all he does here is attempting to find a solution for the hacking going on within his own server. If people get hacked on their e-mail account, why would you move the fault to anyone else..
Title: Re: How did they get your password?
Post by: sandisk on 21 03, 2014, 04:47:56 pm
Text..

I'm not saying it's Arran's responsibility to take care of the ones who've lost their e-mail accounts, but the thing is if you can get "phished" for your MTA account info why not your e-mail aswell. If you're stupid enough to randomly click on everything random people send you, you kinda deserv that hard lesson. Sure this might be a solution for some, but it wont help the majority of the ones who claim their Accounts got "hacked". We should send them on a class on how to surf the internet safely :)
Title: Re: How did they get your password?
Post by: neiltorres81 on 21 03, 2014, 05:07:58 pm
Well, other using KeyLogger to hack account that save user and passwords on documents. they're hacking some online games account. well I sugguest to add it KeyLogger. I was one of it victim in CrossFire PH.
Title: Re: How did they get your password?
Post by: Fa3z on 21 03, 2014, 05:14:41 pm
once I was gonna get hacked  by a guy name Never-Killer, saying want donator  level,asking account name + password to make us fool that arran need password + account  for transfering donator level etc
https://imageshack.com/i/0mucpsp
Title: Re: How did they get your password?
Post by: beerman123 on 21 03, 2014, 05:38:52 pm
People who get hacked usually give their information voluntarily for others to log in. If a security question is added then I think they'd just share that aswell. I was thinking maybe you could link your ingame account to your forum account? That way you could recover your ingame account through the forum (or authorize serials). Force players to have a different password for the two of them then though.
Title: Re: How did they get your password?
Post by: Axl on 21 03, 2014, 06:15:48 pm
Long time ago, a guy posted a link in shoutbox, saying "If you want free drugs, go here" idk how many people got trapped but I didn't open it, maybe some hackers knows that how to fool someone. Newb hackers (I think) use links thingy, like sending a link to a guy saying check this or any trap and because of what, they gets the password by scripting/programming the system etc.

Indeed, most of the time you just get input fields and everything typed in this field is stored in an SQL database, of course, it's stored in a non-encrypted format.

About keylogger, there are ways to block programs in your config panels or antivirus softs, google would help you I think
Title: Re: How did they get your password?
Post by: Laskan13 on 21 03, 2014, 06:22:33 pm
the poeple with real hacks pay for poeple that making hacks, and much of these poeple dont show them in the public, so only they know it and it is hard to know who is hacking if nobody knows he is a hacker with a hack...

the most poeple get a OWN hack that nobody knows, only the maker and the buyer. its hard to know who is a hacker and who not.
Title: Re: How did they get your password?
Post by: Dehea on 21 03, 2014, 06:32:17 pm
What if players must be able to login only from their IP adress'?
If player trying to login in account with another IP, he'll need to enter password sent to his email by CIT.

Just don't use stupid programs called "AIMBOT FOR MTA 1.3.5, WORKING 1000%" as there are many stealers in every game, and don't tell your password anybody else
Title: Re: How did they get your password?
Post by: fadyjoseph21 on 21 03, 2014, 06:43:42 pm
Hey Arran,

Account hacking is not always because of players stupidity.

as I got hacked some weeks ago because I logged in from a PC that is attacked by a backdoor or something like that from a net cafe and I reported the serial to kaka and he banned it and after I got hacked I decided to suggest my idea to the server and the idea got denied because it didn't meet the requirement of votes. Here is it (http://cit2.net/index.php?topic=115039.msg1391780#msg1391780)
and today I got amazed from people replies here .. all like your idea and all support it. then why they downvoted my suggest ? anyway > I suggested it exactly what you suggest now but I wanna add a little thing to your suggest

1) This system not forcing players to add there serials and force them to use this system.
2) Adding a radio button to disable/enable this system.
3) If a serial which not listed in the player's white list then he must confirm that its his account from his e.mail or whatever or if it possible to add phone numbers to confirm that it's your account with a pin code that the server will send to the owner's mobile. but I think this needs some payments from Arran but it will help in the server security.

so this system will be for players who think that someone trying to hack.

and here is an example GUI for what im talking about
Show content
(http://i.imgur.com/f9U4wIa.jpg[/spoiler])

Thanks,
Regards,
FaDY-Jo.
Title: Re: How did they get your password?
Post by: MajdeTheGamer on 21 03, 2014, 07:06:35 pm
guys there a little buggy things hackers where using and it is when you login to CIT and save your login any one can hack you from that PC by entering mta sa > mods > resources > CITaccount > and he will find your registered account so be carefull :D
Title: Re: How did they get your password?
Post by: VazZ on 21 03, 2014, 07:50:20 pm
guys there a little buggy things hackers where using and it is when you login to CIT and save your login any one can hack you from that PC by entering mta sa > mods > resources > CITaccount > and he will find your registered account so be carefull :D

That isn't any bug. When you save your password it gets saved locally and the people just grab the file to get the password. They're not even hackers, just some children who think they'd be hackers but really just try hard

This can be prevented by
- Never let someone teamview you while you are AFK (install mods yourself, dont trust randoms, watch when someone is using teamviewer)
- Never let a "friend" go to your computer while you are not there to watch
- Never save your password in the login panel in a net café or someone elses computer
- Never accept any file from an unrelilable source, though noone listens to this last part anyways
Title: Re: How did they get your password?
Post by: MajdeTheGamer on 21 03, 2014, 08:01:08 pm
I am not hacker just was testing some resource and I found CITaccount and when I entered it I found my accname and password and be carefull again guys
Title: Re: How did they get your password?
Post by: ExTRa. on 21 03, 2014, 08:15:16 pm
If something happens ın the computer.
be changed if available okay.  ;)
Title: Re: How did they get your password?
Post by: VPK4 on 21 03, 2014, 09:27:42 pm
guys there a little buggy things hackers where using and it is when you login to CIT and save your login any one can hack you from that PC by entering mta sa > mods > resources > CITaccount > and he will find your registered account so be carefull :D
Not really a "hack" but pretty well used by account thiefs I suppose, why not encrypt that file using some kind of smart algorithm like acorp which uses binary math to modify each single byte in the password string and salt it with somethnig that is constant and uniq like the serial. That would also prevent thiefs from copying the file into another computer, I assume that you already got a feature with password reset based on email. Another solution would be to force harder passwords using pregmatch to force capital letters numbers etc. since most people just use simple ones like "12346" or "password" etc..
Title: Re: How did they get your password?
Post by: jackrockman on 22 03, 2014, 04:08:00 am
Well, I thinked about something and I hope you like it



My suggestions is :-

We make a window called " Security account log-in " when the player log-in  .. he write his security password  .. With that way.. No one will get hacked.. Because they will steal the password not the " Security password " .. and Everyone have his "Security password "
Title: Re: How did they get your password?
Post by: Mr.Johnson on 22 03, 2014, 05:23:00 am
The most important thing every member of CIT wants to protect is money, vehicles and property. So adding PIN or personal identification number to:-

Buying Or selling vehicles
Withdrawal of money
Buying or selling of property

If the player puts in a false PIN then the ability of making any kind of transaction is disabled and an email is sent to the owner consisting of the new PIN and why was it changed.

PIN will change in 1 attempt only because we dont want to take the risk of keeping it 3 attempts. The hacker might be trying out possibilities.

As for email address, I think it should be enforced by the staff to have an email address linked to an account
Title: Re: How did they get your password?
Post by: Ginga_Ninja on 22 03, 2014, 05:36:59 am
Yeah sure.... because I will just open my arms and have a family reunion... :fp: Makes perfect sense when I'm American and my supposed "cousin" is from a third world country...
Also last I checked, CiT isnt the "trend" I don't see how somebody would have friends IRL that live near them that play a Server on a Multiplayer mod on a game from 2004...
Maybe Titanfall or BF4, or some MODERN game but not a SERVER from a game developed in 2004. I just like CIT because you can meet people from all over the world, but you shouldn't give your Personal Info to them. :fp:
Title: Re: How did they get your password?
Post by: Hakeem on 22 03, 2014, 10:31:02 am
My friends acc hacked what he will do ?
http://cit2.net/index.php?topic=66413.msg662348#msg662348 (http://cit2.net/index.php?topic=66413.msg662348#msg662348)
Title: Re: How did they get your password?
Post by: Ryan. on 22 03, 2014, 02:38:59 pm
Well, that is one of the huge problems a server could face. Those steps given above are awesome to prevent it but I also came up with a new idea.

What I was thinking lately is that why not having PIN codes for accounts? You will be asked to give a PIN code while registering an Ingame account and there, you will be warned strictly that you cant change the PIN code once you have it.

For this, people will have one and only one PIN code added either in your account data by setAccountData or into a new database. So when you lost your password, you gotta click "Forgot password" in login window and it will ask for your current e-mail and as well as your account PIN code. If both things are correct and matching the database/account data, you will be asked for new password.

In my opinion, this PIN code system is better and the serial protection is also great. Here, few questions arise:

What if I forgot my PIN code?
- Thats your fault but if you prove it that you are NOT a hacker, you can inform Lx+ staff to change your code by /changepin account newPin command.

If we can only set it on the time of registering, what about existing accounts?
- On player login, if database/account data returns false value, player will be asked for PIN code, window will appear saying "Your account doesnt have any PIN code yet, to proceed playing, enter any PIN code two times." And here players will be strictly warned aswell that you cannot change your PIN code.

What if a hacker contacts a staff to change my PIN?
- For this purpose, if someone asks to change his PIN, staffs will inform them that I will change PIN after 7 days. So if real owner logs in in these days, he will see that his account hacked and he will easily recover it by PIN code.

If the PIN system is not going to work, then the serial system is great option, I just gave my input.
Title: Re: How did they get your password?
Post by: jackrockman on 22 03, 2014, 04:13:10 pm
Well, that is one of the huge problems a server could face. Those steps given above are awesome to prevent it but I also came up with a new idea.

What I was thinking lately is that why not having PIN codes for accounts? You will be asked to give a PIN code while registering an Ingame account and there, you will be warned strictly that you cant change the PIN code once you have it.

For this, people will have one and only one PIN code added either in your account data by setAccountData or into a new database. So when you lost your password, you gotta click "Forgot password" in login window and it will ask for your current e-mail and as well as your account PIN code. If both things are correct and matching the database/account data, you will be asked for new password.

In my opinion, this PIN code system is better and the serial protection is also great. Here, few questions arise:

What if I forgot my PIN code?
- Thats your fault but if you prove it that you are NOT a hacker, you can inform Lx+ staff to change your code by /changepin account newPin command.

If we can only set it on the time of registering, what about existing accounts?
- On player login, if database/account data returns false value, player will be asked for PIN code, window will appear saying "Your account doesnt have any PIN code yet, to proceed playing, enter any PIN code two times." And here players will be strictly warned aswell that you cannot change your PIN code.

What if a hacker contacts a staff to change my PIN?
- For this purpose, if someone asks to change his PIN, staffs will inform them that I will change PIN after 7 days. So if real owner logs in in these days, he will see that his account hacked and he will easily recover it by PIN code.

If the PIN system is not going to work, then the serial system is great option, I just gave my input.

Well, That what I just think about it and write My suggestion (http://cit2.net/index.php?topic=118708.msg1465882#msg1465882) about that subject .. but, I think no one noticed it .. 

Well, For every account must have got "Security account log-in" .. I think It is the best way to save our accounts .. Because when the hacker log-in the account .. There are window will appear saying "Security account log-in" .. So he won't log-in in the account.. Because he stole Account and Password .. Not Account's security code .. So I suggest to do this .. and No one give to anybody his "Security code" ..

Somethings about that suggestion :-

No one give his " Security code " to anyone
If someone forget his " Security code " .. There will be a window in log-in window .. Like " Forgot Password "
Email-adress of " Security code " will be the same for The account.
If this script added .. to make your " Security code " will be a command it is " /securitycode <yoursecuritycode> " and The message will be sent to your account's email-adress.. To confirm it

Just that.
Title: Re: How did they get your password?
Post by: Arran on 22 03, 2014, 04:34:51 pm
I've decided what I'm going to do.