Punishment is valid..Meanwhile
I don't believe /cc is punishable as you can do /eject and lock your vehicle already. That's just my opinion, also I don't think that I've received a Punishment Appeal of someone got punished because of flaming in /cc so yeah. That's just my opinion, I'll leave the decision to my fellow PAMs.
@Zuvich & @Skyscrap you can make up your verdict.
I can't think of why car chat messages should be immune from punishment. They should be treated the same as if they'd said it in local chat.
PAM team needs to be removed not refreshed its a failed system but no one wants to admit it.
PAM team needs to be removed not refreshed its a failed system but no one wants to admit it.
Ever since its creation every version of the team faced immense backlash and they mostly had end every teams tenure with drama leaks and corruption.
There are 2 kinds of PAM teams
1) A team that is controlled by high staff and they do what they high staff pleases which defeats the whole point of the PAM system and thus unfairness and corruption will run rampant in the server.
2) A team that opposes the staff which ends up being removed sooner or later because they become a pain in the ass and thus insuring fairness will not happen
The PAM team is like the power struggles between the emperors and Popes back in the middle ages. The PAM team is picked by the staff team who do you think they'll choose? Someone who insures fairness or someone who benefits the staff team?
Just delete the PAM system it is shit and unsalvageable
I am positive, just delete the board they need to rest from the misery. :tick:
PAM team needs to be removed not refreshed its a failed system but no one wants to admit it.
Ever since its creation every version of the team faced immense backlash and they mostly had end every teams tenure with drama leaks and corruption.
There are 2 kinds of PAM teams
1) A team that is controlled by high staff and they do what they high staff pleases which defeats the whole point of the PAM system and thus unfairness and corruption will run rampant in the server.
2) A team that opposes the staff which ends up being removed sooner or later because they become a pain in the ass and thus insuring fairness will not happen
The PAM team is like the power struggles between the emperors and Popes back in the middle ages. The PAM team is picked by the staff team who do you think they'll choose? Someone who insures fairness or someone who benefits the staff team?
Just delete the PAM system it is shit and unsalvageable
PAM team needs to be removed not refreshed its a failed system but no one wants to admit it.
Ever since its creation every version of the team faced immense backlash and they mostly had end every teams tenure with drama leaks and corruption.
There are 2 kinds of PAM teams
1) A team that is controlled by high staff and they do what they high staff pleases which defeats the whole point of the PAM system and thus unfairness and corruption will run rampant in the server.
2) A team that opposes the staff which ends up being removed sooner or later because they become a pain in the ass and thus insuring fairness will not happen
The PAM team is like the power struggles between the emperors and Popes back in the middle ages. The PAM team is picked by the staff team who do you think they'll choose? Someone who insures fairness or someone who benefits the staff team?
Just delete the PAM system it is shit and unsalvageable
considering the fact that Atheer and Sky discuss cases privately in their DMs)
Morale of the story is, never trust the community and bad people may pass through the filter
I can agreed to refresh it, but only 2 months? How i'll they provavelmente can do something better? Think can be atleast 6 monthsFor sure if community members found that the PAM team is good, and they do not support making that bullshits and making their own rules like what the actual PAM are doing, staffs will just let them.
It's all about community votes / staff team votes and head staffs opinion and if a PAM is doing all good and doesn't have any complains about him or his verdicts then he stays after having head staffs and staff team opinion.
Hello,I totally agree with your point but as they can see how the current PAM system is shit because of the problems and many corrupted/biased things going on there
As most of replies agrees to remove PAM system, then are you all okay to let staff who punish you to deal with your PAs? I'm not saying they are not trustful but it's basically the same.
As far as I know, head & high staff are always looking after the PAMs and see their activity.
Don't know why that team exists at all. Most of them (except Arnold, probably) have no idea or experience of things they're handling and very often make stupid biased decisions just because of their incompetence.. I think that either the team needs to be wiped out instead of a re-election or such, or more competent individuals from all 4 sides (law, criminal, gangster and civilian) need to be appointed because currently that board is a complete clownshow.I also like what Lucifer said about making it only 4 from each side which would fix the problem of PAMs not having any experience of a specified side and taking decisions about it.
Hello,
As most of replies agrees to remove PAM system, then are you all okay to let staff who punish you to deal with your PAs? I'm not saying they are not trustful but it's basically the same.
As far as I know, head & high staff are always looking after the PAMs and see their activity.
As far as I know, head & high staff are always looking after the PAMs and see their activity.Bruu... U didn't see how PAMs are making their own fuckin rules and people aren't getting treated on a good way? I once saw a PAM flaming and using some prohibited words in order to act like he is something useful on this community. But in fact, he is just a piece of shit. But honestly, PAMs aren't even a useful people on this server they are just rejecting appeals over and over and staffs are obviously never ever saw their activity nor their behaviour I am pretty sure.
never forget 2019, the councillor system when the worst players imaginable became councillors. One of them who goes by the name of "Ariana" was so Islamophobic that ultimately his extreme offensive actions and insults towards the Muslim players got him banned, Morale of the story is, never trust the community and bad people may pass through the filter
:cringe::thumb:
(https://i.imgur.com/jUqpWXc.png)
Can confirm community can't be trusted :cros:
(https://i.imgur.com/jUqpWXc.png)
Can confirm community can't be trusted :cros:
Negative.It won't be by community players only the staffs will have their opinion on the players + Cons/Pros same with what happened with HSO refresh.
What this will turn into is a 'friends become PAM' scenario. Certain people will be more favored based purely on the fact they have more recognition and popularity in the server, not based on the skills and qualities that are needed for the PAM duty. Things would get ugly very quickly if this were to be implemented, and therefore it's a solid negative vote from myself.
It won't be by community players only the staffs will have their opinion on the players + Cons/Pros same with what happened with HSO refresh.I agree on this with you because we can't trust the community and refreshing the team is a good way to find good PAMs who can help solve cases etc... :tick:
Most of replies here agrees to the suggestion that the team is unfair and need a refresh, if you really agree with the suggestion, then each of you need to post an unfair PA or UC and state the reason and what should be done instead of "oh ye bad team, refresh"
The more posts are made to this topic, the more complicated things become.The refreshment can be 2-3 times maximum until we can have a clear team without any red circles or any issues or complaints about them or how they're handling the cases, it can be done by head staff + trustworthy players or maybe high community members like RCM SCM+ we all can discuss that and In my opinion, maybe some players wouldn't agree about I prefer having Arran who is handling the team addition/remove if he has the time of course.
I still don't understand, do you propose to refresh this team every certain period, who gets to choose them?
Is the method you are referring to the same as the method that existed many years ago, in which staff members would choose the candidates for the staff position based on the opinion of others? If so, then I am in favor of your proposal.It can be like that but I honestly recommend having Pros/Cons of players that want to have the position listed by the head staffs and players can have the ability to share their opinions too about the players about pros/cons like past issues and how he handled something in his old duty things like that.
It is also important that as soon as the people vote against the candidate then they must attach evidence that justifies their claim and not just do an X and move on because this will turn into a lack of quality and contempt.
I'm neutral until the OP replies to my post.
I think that the current PAM system is the best.Thank (https://cit.gg/index.php?topic=378920.0) You (https://cit.gg/index.php?topic=382045.0) For (https://cit.gg/index.php?topic=382668.0) Voting (https://cit.gg/index.php?topic=385626.msg5659467#msg5659467) I can see that they're using their common sense not quoting from Clarification of Specific Acts (https://cit.gg/index.php?topic=283478.0)
Atleast Daddy posted his opinion about PAs and UCs, if you really want to support this suggest then do the same, peace!
What this will turn into is a 'friends become PAM' scenario. Certain people will be more favored based purely on the fact they have more recognition and popularity in the server, not based on the skills and qualities that are needed for the PAM duty. Things would get ugly very quickly if this were to be implemented, and therefore it's a solid negative vote from myself.
The fact, that most of the people, that voted positive on the removal of PAM team (on the 1st page) have been and still are regularly punished and are usually spending more time on punishment appeal and unfairness case boards than playing the game without disturbing anybody is just ridiculous. It is also not hidden that most of the votes are based on one and only reason - certain players' topics (PAs and UCs) have not been handled the way they wanted.
Just an example is, player X gets punished for violating Y in-game rule, the punishment gets issued by a staff member after a discussion is being held among the staffs (one autonomous party validates the punishment)... Later one, the punished guy goes to PA board and appeals his punishment (which is clearly elaborated in the server rules as a punishable act, but he still opens an appeal), the punishment appeal gets rejected by PAMs(second autonomous party validates the punishment), even an administrator confirms that his punishment is valid... However, that person is still mad at the staff that punished him and the PAM team for validating his punishment - he starts insulting them ingame, prooviking in different ways and so. In the end X player comes here and upvotes on a highly disruptive and corruption-promoting suggestion.
There is no reason to refresh or remove the current PAM team or to involve the community in the recruitment of new members of that team. This quote describes the situation in the best possible way.
PAMs are doing their job properly and the risk of any inappropriate / unfair moves being done is decreased to minimum as they are working along a L4 staff who is engaging in discussion from time to time. He monitors their performance and ensures fairness, whenever he sees any problematic action being done by any PAM, he notifies the entire team or the certain person. This may be seen from the leaked private chats of the PAM team, the ones of 2021 and so.
Negative
- Another point L4+ agreed on is to place side by side staff members and PAM and introduce an hybrid system with PAM duty going back to staff team while keeping the part of team made also by players. I have the feeling this type of drama will never end so they most time saving solution is to just remove the player factor and put staff. We will actively work on this to have 2-3 staff members to handle cases while respecting CoSA topic and main rules and examples.PAA are allowed to assist the PAM team by casting their votes on appeals from now on.