Balancing Unviolent Status of Criminals

[StevieFTW]

Before I start, I'm going to tell you why I suggested this idea:

• Cops can be killed any given time, but criminals have a protection.
• Criminals need to shoot first before a cop can even aim the gun. "Deathmatching counts as aiming your weapon to other players"

Here goes my idea:
Firstly, the violent status for a criminal should NOT wear off for an infinite amount of time until the criminal is jailed.
Secondly, cops should be able to KILL a criminal that is holding a gun because it's a threat.

I don't think any criminals should have problem with this because they can still kill cops like usual, unless they don't realize that they're way in the upper hands. Anyone with 1 minute gameplay could even figure that out.

I hope this suggestion can get feed-backs from you guys and get accepted.

Thank you for reading this.

[Physcopath]

Firstly, the violent status for a criminal should NOT wear off for an infinite amount of time until the criminal is jailed.

I think you have a point about this and I think cops deserve this.

Secondly, cops should be able to KILL a criminal that is holding a gun because it's a threat.

I however do not agree with this one.  Maybe if criminal were to aim at a police then the cop would be able to kill them but I don't agree for killing them if they just hold a gun.

Also I think that if it does get added and cops get to kill arrest whenever then the tazer and baton should be removed and it should be combat fighting only. Neutral for now.

[StevieFTW]

I don't think there's an MTA check to know if someone aims at someone. That's why I suggested for holding a gun instead.

Dude, you're a hardcore criminal and you think every criminal enjoys only combat with cops?
There would still be a criminal that is just robbing using other skills, I for one enjoy running around from cops in a car after robbing ATMs. That's why for some criminals' sake, I suggested this with thinking that maybe some criminals want to remain unviolent and go for good ol' chasing. Tazer and nightstick should stay for the special occasion like the good ol' chasing, but I'm pretty sure most cops nowadays don't even have tazer on them.

[mrbrutus1456]

@Physcopath Both the tazer and the nightstick are still useful in situations where the criminal surrender or is bugged in any way which seems to happen pretty often, even with this added I´m pretty shore that we would have to arrest a couple of criminals the old way as usual. Secondly why would you hold a gun unless if you are trying to kill someone? obviously only if you are wanted it would trigger the violent state maybe but unwanted players need some kind of trigger as well.

And StevieFTW, there are a couple of ways to detect if someone is aiming in MTA, In this case all we need is a trigger once that either activate the violent state (boolean value), make someone wanted (let an unwanted player become wanted for aiming for example) or both. What about become wanted and violent for aiming while being unwanted and become violent for holding a gun while already wanted? Could that work maybe.

Here are the functions that may be used:

Code: Lua

1. -- Detect what the player target/aim at
2. element getPlayerTarget ( player thePlayer )
3.  
4. -- Event trigger for player target (client)
5. addEventHandler ( "onClientPlayerTarget", getRootElement(), targetingActivated )

And ofc some basic standard "if else" statements inside to detect if the player are holding a gun, what team the victim are in, if any vehicles are involved etc...

Anyway Upvoted.

[Jamie]

I suggested nearly the exact same thing when the new DM rule was implemented.
It didn't recieve enough support.

So yes you have my +1
...
Criminals seriously, lets make things balanced. At the moment cit's cnr is completely out of balance..
Cops can't kill criminals who pose a threat and they should.
With this suggestion implemented a new sense of RP will be brought to the server. Criminals would need to sheath their weapons at all times inorder to avoid having a police officer chase after you.

my previous unsupported  suggestion:http://cit2.net/index.php?topic=92533

[Physcopath]

Criminals seriously, lets make things balanced. At the moment cit's cnr is completely out of balance..

CITS cnr has always been unbalanced not just from when the rule #1 was changed, before it was always in the favour of cops and now its in the favour of criminals. Its really hard to get a complete balance and for everyone to be happy about it.

[StevieFTW]

Ah I see that there's a function of it, thanks for your input, mrbrutus. Anyways, I still think that by having a gun on hand in public is already a crime in a lot of countries. It's just logical that here, where criminals can sneak up on cops anytime, cops can kill criminals with guns at any given time.

Come on, don't you ever see a cop with low health, suddenly comes from nowhere a criminal holding a gun while being unwanted. It was a certain death for the cop, we need to give them at least a chance to protect themselves.

I think after this update, the general CnR should be a little bit more balanced.
Yes, Physcopath, previously the balance was only slightly off, nowadays, it's greatly unbalanced in general.

[mrbrutus1456]

Yep, there are many good functions that might be used here, and I still agree with "holding a gun" since it´s pretty obvious that they will kill you. Real noon violent criminals doesn´t run around with guns, aim or shoot right next to everything they see.

[Claire]

I somehow neutral for this (generally). Because criminal has this particular disadvantage: Once they die, they will get jailed. Cops can go back to the criminal location to try to jail them again whenever they want to. That also means that cops have more times to plan strategies. But criminals don't.

Firstly, the violent status for a criminal should NOT wear off for an infinite amount of time until the criminal is jailed.

But.. I completely agree with this. For a comparison to realism, when someone murdered another one in real life, does their violent status automatically removed after any particular time? No, except if they get a court or jailed.

Secondly, cops should be able to KILL a criminal that is holding a gun because it's a threat.

Disagree with this. Because there is also civilian. Well, it may be possible to just apply the script for criminal only as civilian can't hurt anybody. But it just doesn't make sense that if criminal holding a gun is a threat, but civilian doesn't. I mean, of course, in term of realism.

[mrbrutus1456]

I somehow neutral for this (generally). Because criminal has this particular disadvantage: Once they die, they will get jailed. Cops can go back to the criminal location to try to jail them again whenever they want to. That also means that cops have more times to plan strategies. But criminals don't.

There are two types of crimes you can commit, either to earn money or drugs or just killing cops. The first type doesn´t give you long time in jail at all, often not more than 2 minutes witch give you much time to plan your strategies, go afk or just relax. Getting randomly killed as a cop isn´t nice either, it actually cost money to die if you don´t know that. As long you are unwanted you can always plan your strategies while cops can´t due to the risk of getting randomly killed all the time.

Disagree with this. Because there is also civilian. Well, it may be possible to just apply the script for criminal only as civilian can't hurt anybody. But it just doesn't make sense that if criminal holding a gun is a threat, but civilian doesn't. I mean, of course, in term of realism.

The most logic here is ofc to apply for all, why would anyone run around with gun unless if you actually want to hurt or troll anyone? If you are unwanted then maybe aiming could be the trigger to prevent that you get wanted by mistake but otherwise I ´just don´t see any reason why anyone should be able to get away with violent behavior with guns.

[beerman123]

Yes, it's straight out unfair that cops have to "wait" for a criminal to actually start shooting when he's threatening you. It only makes sense to allow cops to kill criminals aswell, BUT if the criminal doesn't shoot back (didn't do any damage before he died) the cop should get wanted. This prevents cops from going on killing sprees, which isn't very cop-like.

[mrbrutus1456]

Yes, it's straight out unfair that cops have to "wait" for a criminal to actually start shooting when he's threatening you. It only makes sense to allow cops to kill criminals aswell, BUT if the criminal doesn't shoot back (didn't do any damage before he died) the cop should get wanted. This prevents cops from going on killing sprees, which isn't very cop-like.

Not shore about that since it might get abused for trolling, for example if a criminal pick up a minigun and start to aim the cop know that he must respond quick or get killed but even then the criminal might shoot right next to the cop which might look like an attack even when it´s just trolling, the script should be able to handle all this without possibility of getting abused.

[Claire]

There are two types of crimes you can commit, either to earn money or drugs or just killing cops. The first type doesn´t give you long time in jail at all, often not more than 2 minutes witch give you much time to plan your strategies, go afk or just relax. Getting randomly killed as a cop isn´t nice either, it actually cost money to die if you don´t know that. As long you are unwanted you can always plan your strategies while cops can´t due to the risk of getting randomly killed all the time.

Well, to me criminal has only one kind of objective: Earn money or jailed, earn drug or jailed, and killing cops or jailed. Jailed equal to failed to criminals. When cop only have absolute one objective: Arrest criminal, no matter how. When they die, come back anytime to try it again.

I've seen all the time criminals always lose eventually. Whether in events (even if they succeed, cop would wait on entrance door(s) to hunt them to die) or just killing cops in particular place. Let's exclude if they're pro or newbie, but the reason why they always lose to me is mainly because once criminal win, cops will just re-spawn and re-think of strategies, but when criminals die, they can only wait in jail or spend much money for jail fine if they are rich. That means Law include more players because they have less spending and no punishment after died.

And anyway, when criminal die, it costs them money too and jail afterwards. So they get double things here.

The most logic here is ofc to apply for all, why would anyone run around with gun unless if you actually want to hurt or troll anyone? If you are unwanted then maybe aiming could be the trigger to prevent that you get wanted by mistake but otherwise I ´just don´t see any reason why anyone should be able to get away with violent behavior with guns.

You're right. I just personally thought that outside of server rules, "trolling" isn't equal to "violent". Realistically, when criminal aim at cop, yes that's a threat. But when civilian aim at others, why is that a threat? They can't hurt you anyway, and it's their own disadvantage if they shoot you as they would just waste their ammo for doing that for nothing. But in other side, triggering wanted level for criminal when they aim at cop, while civilian is again, excluded, simply doesn't make sense. At least to me, not sure.

But anyway, back to Stevie's point here I'm disagree about:

• cops should be able to KILL a criminal that is holding a gun because it's a threat.

Well, it would be disadvantage for cop if this rule added. The reason why rule #1 was changed was too help law side to get more quantity of worthy wanted players. So instead of making cop being able to kill criminal just because they hold a gun *which is very inhumanly wrong thing to do as a cop. Why don't rollback the rule #1?

And anyway, cop would get less income if this applied. For example: Criminal hold a gun, aim at you, they got one star, and you kill them. How much you spend for killing him? Minimal example is 7 bullets of SPAZ which cost $280 less or more. And also you may lose your armor and need to buy one, or your health and need medkits/heal, or chance to die and more money to re-spawn. And how much you would get for killing that criminal who hold a gun? Well, maybe $700 is the maximum number.

And again, there will be less worthy criminal to chase if this applied. For the moment, you can really make being a cop as your main job as the earning is very little, and this would hurt them more.

[mrbrutus1456]

@Claire I don´t think that the community want the old rule #1 back, tried to suggest that not long time ago and it got -10 votes, the main reason isn´t just money obviously because it was possible to abuse. Actually most of the rules that you can be adminjailed for are possible to provoke another player to break in order to get him punished when that player actually didn´t wanted to break the rule, just some examples, when an unwanted criminal attacked killed a cop with rifle (DM and against the rules before) it was completely impossible for the cop to prove that since you couldn´t see the name, as well as a coup could try to arrest a group of criminals but as soon the criminal started to shoot the cop could just stop, remove his gun and then report the criminal for DM, something that turned out to be valid in many cases.

However you can´t abuse that anymore with the new rule which is really good, but the consequences remain, who get´s benefits from the new rule? Well in most cases it´s criminals who like to troll or grief cops by randomly killing or similar, criminal gangs was allowed to help each other with the old rule as well so they havn´t get any benefits from the new rule either as well as it is a real disadvantage for cops that you might get killed at anytime, fine if I´m at the wrong place at the wrong time and actually are involved in the activity by trying to arrest someone or similar but I still don´t see why anyone need the ability to grief by aiming at me for a long time and then just kill me as soon I´m not ready for it, could be anything basically like if another player comes just to have a conversation in localchat and so on. Ending shift isn´t an option either now since many crack cops abused that feature to get cheap arrests just like many criminals abuse the new rule to get cheap wanted points.

But anyway, back to Stevie's point here I'm disagree about:

• cops should be able to KILL a criminal that is holding a gun because it's a threat.

There is no reason to disagree with that, as Stevie said it is a threat, why would you hold a gun near a cop in the first place unless if you actually want to attack the cop? just don´t run around with guns and you will be just fine. Just because something is allowed doesn´t mean that everyone will do that, if that where the case then you would always see 2-3 criminals hunting for each single cop which you doesn´t see, there aren´t many % of the criminals who hunt for cops compared to the total amount of criminals and the same will apply for the law side as well, only a few cops would actually kill you for holding a gun. First of all the wanted level for that doesn´t even need to be high, lowest possible so you can use /fine as well if you pick up a gun by mistake for example as well as it would give you a short amount of time in jail since it´s not a big crime compared to if you actually killed the cop and you actually mentioned the reason by yourself why not many cops would kill criminals for holding a gun, it would cost more money than you make of it so the feature would obviously only be used for self-defense.

[Evil4N]

I agree, why are criminals allowed to go out of violent-status anyway ? Are they cowards by natural ? They can kill cops whenever they want and then they get protection from bullets too ? Lmfao CNR is made for criminals purposes. We cops are the bait and our job is to die.

Everytime when a criminal gets out of violent-status means he can have free 2 shots at a cop before the cop switched back to gun. This is what Arran calls "fair-gunfight"  ? Lmfao. Fair for criminals propably.