Author Topic: [Forum] Remove IR board and add back Unfainess Cases.  (Read 4960 times)

Offline Nikos

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[Forum] Remove IR board and add back Unfainess Cases.
« on: 17 12, 2019, 12:31:35 am »
Gonna keep this as succinct as possible. PAM team used to have another type of cases they were dealing with,  called "Unfairness Cases". They were pretty much the same as the current IR cases and what they were aiming for was to solve any kind of unfairness. This system was removed a bit  later, after the addition of IR board because they are pretty much the same thing. Now players get confused and sometimes they either run to IR board before they appeal their punishment, or treat each board as a 2nd appeal opportunity which is pretty much pointless since PAM team and IRS instant decline situations like these.
But the main reason the old system was better wasn't only because it was more organized in one board along with the PAs, but simply because more people used to add their view on each case instead of one. Which is pretty much what Arran suggested here:
Quote from: Arran link=https://cit.gg/index.php?topic=348462.msg5128636#msg5128636
What if injustice resolution has a team of jurors who will:

1. Vote if the subject severity is significant enough to warrant their further consideration. If not, the moderator (which can be like "the judge") can lock it.
2. Jurors will then discuss the matter and can mention people who they require information from (such as to get logs, or witnesses).
3. Vote on what the topic starter proposed as a solution and or create new solutions for the injustice to vote on. Or vote to take no action.
4. If the jurors have agreed on a solution, they are authorised to mention and require action to be taken. If the mentioned person(s) haven't taken action within a reasonable time, someone higher up (me if necessary) should be mentioned.

The decision of the jury can only be overturned by me personally, which would give them enough power to be meaningful. Decisions should be made in the best interests of CIT.
So instead of drastically change a IR into another PA board, we can simply use the old system which does pretty much the same thing and doesn't add another team of 6 people which will be hard for staff to handle.
We can of course make the Unfairness Cases better this time.
Also every single PAM in the current PAM team has been serving for over a year each
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except CoolDude who rejoined the team but was an old PAM as well and used to deal with Unfairness Cases
. So we (PAMS) all had the opportunity to handle the Unfairness Case system and we know how to deal with them.
With the support of the Administrators and head staff who have been really helpful for the PAM team over the years, we can make the current system better for the best interest of CIT.
Any intelligent fool can make things bigger and more complex… It takes a touch of genius – and a lot of courage to move in the opposite direction. - Albert Einstein

Bakoura

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Re: [Forum] Remove IR board and add back Unfainess Cases.
« Reply #1 on: 17 12, 2019, 02:48:29 am »
I am supporting this only if the decision is taken by PAMs only without interruptions. (Logically 6 people can make the wisest decision)

Offline Western

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Re: [Forum] Remove IR board and add back Unfainess Cases.
« Reply #2 on: 17 12, 2019, 04:45:45 am »
Agreed. Nothing more to say other than what you said of course. Supporting this strongly. For administrators, take a look at this topic if you’d like: https://cit.gg/index.php?topic=349990.0

Offline Malone

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Re: [Forum] Remove IR board and add back Unfainess Cases.
« Reply #3 on: 17 12, 2019, 04:34:30 pm »
Actually if we bring Unfairness Case board will be better for any type of unfair case and PAM's can handle it with a good discussion since they are so professional in unfair cases if we use our common sense 1 moderator can't really actually take a right discussion alone without staff team help, he need to take more options about the unfair case. so yeah i'm positive
« Last Edit: 17 12, 2019, 04:37:10 pm by Malone »

Offline Medusa

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Re: [Forum] Remove IR board and add back Unfainess Cases.
« Reply #4 on: 18 12, 2019, 03:10:10 am »
You can't remove a whole board since its moderator is doing a great job. We'll discuss about your suggestion when he decide to resign. This is my opinion. (I am with you but not at the moment)

Offline 3bood

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Re: [Forum] Remove IR board and add back Unfainess Cases.
« Reply #5 on: 18 12, 2019, 08:34:48 am »
PAMs were always known for fairness and they got enough experience about it as they handled many cases related to that, I don't see the need of IR board while there are PAMs, they could handle both, appeals and unfairness cases, i'm kinda sure they'll provide more fairness to the system. Positive.

Offline UlasDO

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Re: [Forum] Remove IR board and add back Unfainess Cases.
« Reply #6 on: 18 12, 2019, 09:02:11 am »
I'm sure there's a discussion going on about this already. I suggested this exact same thing because IR board is practically useless. So, positive.

Offline Nikos

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Re: [Forum] Remove IR board and add back Unfainess Cases.
« Reply #7 on: 18 12, 2019, 12:22:58 pm »
You can't remove a whole board since its moderator is doing a great job. We'll discuss about your suggestion when he decide to resign. This is my opinion. (I am with you but not at the moment)
The moderator could easily do the exact same thing in PA board as a PAM.
Actually if we bring Unfairness Case board will be better for any type of unfair case and PAM's can handle it with a good discussion since they are so professional in unfair cases if we use our common sense 1 moderator can't really actually take a right discussion alone without staff team help, he need to take more options about the unfair case. so yeah i'm positive
Unfairness case isn't a board. It's another type of "appeal" players could submit. It's when they have been treated unfairly.
Any intelligent fool can make things bigger and more complex… It takes a touch of genius – and a lot of courage to move in the opposite direction. - Albert Einstein

Offline Omer

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Re: [Forum] Remove IR board and add back Unfainess Cases.
« Reply #8 on: 18 12, 2019, 07:59:17 pm »
Even IR decisions useless against Punishment appeals there's no sense remove it better, Positive  :tick: 

Offline Senza

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Re: [Forum] Remove IR board and add back Unfainess Cases.
« Reply #9 on: 19 12, 2019, 01:22:23 pm »
@Nikos, in-case this is added, can we xCMs make a discussion with PAMs about some particular conditions? To make changes because I don't think the old system was at its finest.

Offline Ahmed?

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Re: [Forum] Remove IR board and add back Unfainess Cases.
« Reply #10 on: 19 12, 2019, 01:30:52 pm »
I totally agree with this suggestion, It will be good, but also the person responsible for it will be a good person because they will judge me in all cases. They are really good


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Offline Nikos

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Re: [Forum] Remove IR board and add back Unfainess Cases.
« Reply #11 on: 19 12, 2019, 01:50:48 pm »
@Nikos, in-case this is added, can we xCMs make a discussion with PAMs about some particular conditions? To make changes because I don't think the old system was at its finest.
Of course, I already mentioned that to my topic.
Positive with a little change

People who come to the second board come to ask for a new set of eyes on the subject
That means new people who didn't give a verdict to see if they agree with his point
So if we make a new board with the same people as people who handle punishments it is useless it will be exactly the same thing as pubishmet appeal board but with a second name

So what I'm suggesting to pick other people who will handle this stuff to bring a new set of eyes om the matter and make the system fairer
Another community team will just make the whole situation worse.
Any intelligent fool can make things bigger and more complex… It takes a touch of genius – and a lot of courage to move in the opposite direction. - Albert Einstein

Offline Senza

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Re: [Forum] Remove IR board and add back Unfainess Cases.
« Reply #12 on: 19 12, 2019, 03:06:49 pm »
Having 2 teams with the same purpose would cause drama, problems and pointless verdicts that can be overruled by the other team.

Offline Nikos

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Re: [Forum] Remove IR board and add back Unfainess Cases.
« Reply #13 on: 20 12, 2019, 11:33:40 am »
Exactly. Why would we need 2 teams when 1 team used to do both jobs efficiently?
Any intelligent fool can make things bigger and more complex… It takes a touch of genius – and a lot of courage to move in the opposite direction. - Albert Einstein

Offline Persius#USSF

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Re: [Forum] Remove IR board and add back Unfainess Cases.
« Reply #14 on: 20 12, 2019, 01:09:12 pm »
upvoting this since it won't do any harm and in my opinion it will help ppl who got punished for nothing.
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