[Arran] Addition of a new item to the Staff CoC concerning trivial punishments

[Slow]

I witnessed something ridiculous after 1 month of inactivity coming from an individual within the Staff team:

https://imgur.com/zSDp7F6

Context: A punishment was issued at first sight over a trivial offense without warning the offender first. Hang on, this did not occur once, but twice; although the second screenshot was not saved within my files, unfortunately.

Now, don't focus on the punishment issuer, rather focus on the lack and unwillingness to have a mere level of leniency and, at least, the decency of warning the involved players before actually issuing the punishment OVER such a trivial offense. Like, seriously? When I was Staff I faced many people speaking non-english in an English chat and the first resource of mine was warning and messaging them privately to let them realize their mistake rather than increasing my personal record of punishments issued. However, egocentric and pathetic actions and individuals like the one witnessed in the context given above not only issue punishments to increase their issued-punishment count but also harm the overall player count with their abusive and lame behavior.

Hence, I propose adding the following item to the Staff Code of Conduct:

M) When it comes to minor offenses, Staff members must warn the offenders before issuing a punishment as long as there's no obvious intention to disrupt or troll.

Prior to reading a lot of nonsense arguments: People who think that issuing a punishment over a TRIVIAL offense without warning the offenders is right shouldn't even hold any community position that gives them power over other players.

Peace.

[Ptole]

#A is for speaking non-English in an English only chat. Not sure if the punishment is valid or not since I can see only one trivial line, but it can always be appealed.

#5: Non-English in Main/Team.
Only one occurrence of non-english, even 2 lines in main/team are not enough serious to be reported. Players having a full conversation in public chats and when there isn't any staff online can be reported to be muted accordingly.

I don't think this should be a necessity, since sometimes players try to troll us by misusing a chat on purpose just to annoy us. In these type of cases it'd be stupid to verbally warn them first, so they can do it again a few hours later.

A simple example of misuse of contact admin that I don't want to be forced to verbally warn for before issuing the punishment:
18:32:38 <&CIT-Bot> xC|InVerSioN: Arran my ping 70 why I got ping spike?
18:33:11 <&CIT-Bot> nagy: Stop downloading xnxx

[Rabbid Rabbit]

Ages ago when some of us would see unnecesary mutes that were, let's say, instant or harsh we'd* talk to them on IRC privately to see why they felt it was necessary to mute for something trivial. One thing I personally tried to get across to trial Staff that were new was to be fair and not go on punishment sprees to get their activity "up", this sometimes worked and sometimes they'd keep doing it which didn't always work in their favor. It wasn't always L0's either.

first resource of mine was warning and messaging them privately to let them realize their mistake rather than increasing my personal record of punishments

This is what I would do, not a 100% of the time, but I did find it easier over the years to warn first, or warp to them and spend time helping them (if I wasn't busy with something more urgent). I've always considered myself softer than most and I know not everyone will do it this way, every Staff is different.

harm the overall player count

Considering we already have a low player count I think it's important to make sure every staff have some patience and leniency with punishments (not saying they don't) . However as Ptole mentioned, it's already in the rules and I feel this just needs an appeal / talking to whoever issued the punishment.

*:

Show content

Not everyone, two or three etc

This is my personal opinion.

Edit: Just want to add that I don't mind adding the line to CoC, context must always be present before punishments and judgement of Staff to figure out wether it was a genuine mistake or trolling on purpose. An extra line explicitly describing this scenario isn't a bad idea in my opinion, I remember editing Spanish forum / IG rules and stating specific examples of bad behaviour and unappealable appeals etc, even though these descriptions were not present in English.

[Slow]

#A is for speaking non-English in an English only chat. Not sure if the punishment is valid or not since I can see only one trivial line, but it can always be appealed.
I don't think this should be a necessity, since sometimes players try to troll us by misusing a chat on purpose just to annoy us. In these type of cases it'd be stupid to verbally warn them first, so they can do it again a few hours later.

A simple example of misuse of contact admin that I don't want to be forced to verbally warn for before issuing the punishment:
18:32:38 <&CIT-Bot> xC|InVerSioN: Arran my ping 70 why I got ping spike?
18:33:11 <&CIT-Bot> nagy: Stop downloading xnxx

If we rely on the sentence of "players can appeal their punishments" then we'll still have the issue of having reckless Staff members without enough criteria to identify between someone who's intentionally attempting to disrupt and troll; power-hungry players that eventually reach the Staff position; players who don't know how to appeal their punishments or barely know how this forum works; and someone who simply typed non-English in an English-only chat and/or committed a minor offense unintentionally.

E.g:

• You got 1 beginner (known for unknowingly typing non-English in English-only chats) who doesn't understand how the rules work, how to appeal a punishment, and how to communicate with people within their language.
• You got 1 Staff member whose only interest is to increase their count of punishments issued.

Situation:

• The beginner types non-English in an English-only chat and the aforementioned Staff member mutes them right away, without even teaching them how the game works accordingly.
  

Question:

• Who's benefited? The beginner who has to wait 3 minutes without being able to chat and has a new record listed on their punish log; or the Staff member who increased their count of punishments issued in the Staff members' list?
• Whenever the beginner realizes that there's something called "Punishment Appeals" it may be too late to even submit a proposal, yet the Staff member unfairly gets to keep their count and the recognition for "doing their job" in a bad manner.

Now let's assume that a semi-experienced player with over 500 hours committed the offense. How can something as trivial as typing non-English in an English-only chat be so punishment-worthy compared to other constant provocations seen in super adverts, main and team chats every single day? No comparison, yet the latter often slip through.

Overall, you, Staff members, have and should have enough criteria to distinguish between a troll, an attempt to disrupt, a mistake, a minor offense, and something that people should not be punished for without first warning the offenders. Hence, adding a new item to the CoC lets the overall player count spot unfairnesses, power misuse, and bad management when it comes to punishing.

Considering we already have a low player count I think it's important to make sure every staff have some patience and leniency with punishments (not saying they don't)

Indeed.

This is not 2013's CIT with 1300 players daily and punishments being issued around the corner when someone typed unintentionally in a wrong chat. I totally understand that we as players have the resource of being able to appeal our punishments, but there are still players who don't speak English as their first language and have not even registered on the forum.

[K90]

The warning should be optional if we want this to be implemented, otherwise, they'll just break rules and then > unfairness case > UC - He didn't warn me.

18:32:38 <&CIT-Bot> xC|InVerSioN: Arran my ping 70 why I got ping spike?
18:33:11 <&CIT-Bot> nagy: Stop downloading xnxx

This is exactly what I'm talking about. They'll start breaking the rules just because they know we MUST warn them first. If it's optional, then it'll be much better.

[Slow]

The warning should be optional if we want this to be implemented, otherwise, they'll just break rules and then > unfairness case > UC - He didn't warn me.
This is exactly what I'm talking about. They'll start breaking the rules just because they know we MUST warn them first. If it's optional, then it'll be much better.

Changed from:

M) When it comes to minor offenses, Staff members must warn the offenders before issuing a punishment.

To:

M) When it comes to minor offenses, Staff members must warn the offenders before issuing a punishment as long as there's no obvious intention to disrupt or troll.

That should help enough for both you Staff members who must issue punishments on idiots who intent to troll just like in the example provided by Ptole, and regular players who spot Staff members being too harsh on players over trivial offenses.

[K90]

Changed from:

To:

That should help enough for both you Staff members who must issue punishments on idiots who intent to troll just like in the example provided by Ptole, and regular players who spot Staff members being too harsh on players over trivial offenses.

That's enough. I'm voting positive in your suggestion. 

[OhhKarim]

Not sure if the punishment is valid or not since I can see only one trivial line, but it can always be appealed.

Rephrased: We'll just continue punishing for trivial stuff, and then we'll let you waste your time even more by letting you make an appeal on the forum, which by the time the appeal gets responded to, your punishment time would've most likely already been served, meanwhile the staff who issued the punishment goes on regularly without repercussions. (Especially if it's a newer player, then he also has to create a forum account yet, and if he doesn't speak English, has to find someone to help him translate, and that's even if he knows about the appeal system in the first place...)

This is exactly the issue. So therefore, I agree with this suggestion, upvoting, we need more leniency.

[Brian]

Indeed the staff rushed into punishing the guy, but

1. You forgot what happens when the person can't understand the warning and will just end muted anyway, what then? Where are the Guides, ICM, Country Players, to warn the guy and explain him? Guides in particular that want to claim to help server grow with new players yet these cases are blindly left behind.
2. Rules are translated, literally when entering server you have a message like "PRESS F1 FOR RULES AND USEFUL INFORMATION" without counting adverts and such.
3. We changed ingame rules not so long ago to be specific and clear, yet staff has still to interpret then and change them based on "leniency" only to get blamed by players for not doing a proper job. So if this is the case, my guess is the change was just petty and useless.

I've tagged the post [Arran] so he can get around this quickly.

[Slow]

Indeed the staff rushed into punishing the guy, but

1. You forgot what happens when the person can't understand the warning and will just end muted anyway, what then? Where are the Guides, ICM, Country Players, to warn the guy and explain him? Guides in particular that want to claim to help server grow with new players yet these cases are blindly left behind.
2. Rules are translated, literally when entering server you have a message like "PRESS F1 FOR RULES AND USEFUL INFORMATION" without counting adverts and such.
3. We changed ingame rules not so long ago to be specific and clear, yet staff has still to interpret then and change them based on "leniency" only to get blamed by players for not doing a proper job. So if this is the case, my guess is the change was just petty and useless.

I've tagged the post [Arran] so he can get around this quickly.

I don't wanna make my post too long because that'd waste both of our time so:

1. A semi-experienced player may understand the warning and stop doing it. Whereas when it comes to non-English speakers and beginners, Staff members should try contacting a Guide or a trustable player that speaks the same language as them, and the same Staff member that contacted those players should make sure that the offender understands what they've done wrong and what they should not do before jumping onto the resource of punishing. Now when it comes to trolls and repeated intentional offenders like in the posts mentioned above, they should be punished right away and I don't oppose against that.

In fact, I'm sure this is the procedure that the majority of the Staff members follow because I have seen Staff members trying their best to not jump onto opening the ICM's GUI to punish someone at first offense and when I was a Guide I was contacted many times to bring that kind of support, but we still get to witness cases like the one seen in the screenshot above from time to time and you yourself said it: the staff rushed into punishing.

Hence, the reason I'm suggesting this implementation: in the case proven in the screenshot the Staff member rushed into punishing, but then what? Do we leave that off and do nothing about it so that the Staff member continues doing it because that's what they subjectively consider is right? Or do we introduce a new item to the CoC that lets the player count spot those unfairnesses and speak on behalf of the offenders that were punished in a rushed manner and at the same time let the current Staff members realize that they must follow a procedure when it comes to minor offenses and non-troll/disrupt cases prior to punishing?

If adding a new item to the CoC is not the right path to follow, then what can we do to prevent events like this from happening?

2. Yes and you are right in that aspect. But how many players out of those beginners actually bother to read 2-3+ paragraphs of text when all they wanna do is play and experience the server? Does that make them eligible to be punished when they commit a minor offense? Not really, because they can be taught instead of punished.

3. Not really, most of the rules and current punishable offenses are explicit and understandable as they are. However, what about this?

#5: Non-English in Main/Team.
Only one occurrence of non-english, even 2 lines in main/team are not enough serious to be reported. Players having a full conversation in public chats and when there isn't any staff online can be reported to be muted accordingly.

Yet we witnessed a Staff member rushing into punishing over something so trivial. So perhaps the rules are clear enough but some individuals don't enforce them properly and/or don't follow the procedures to make them clear for the player count in a less-harsh manner.


Whatever the outcome of this suggestion is, I didn't bother creating this topic to fulfill a whim or complain like most kids do 24/7 on this forum. The reason I opened this is that it was actually unfair for those 2 players who were punished in a rushed manner and I'm sure this has not been the first time and will continue happening if we don't regulate it somehow.

[Rabbid Rabbit]

2. Rules are translated, literally when entering server you have a message like "PRESS F1 FOR RULES AND USEFUL INFORMATION" without counting adverts and such.

I don't know if it's like this already but, wouldn't it be a good idea if when a new player logs in, the server checks their country (for eg, Spain) and when they log in game the message which is normally in English appears in Spanish like:
"PULSE F1 PARA LAS REGLAS E INFORMACIÓN ÚTIL" ? Delete this post if this already exists.

[TheGam3r23]

Indeed the staff rushed into punishing the guy

Will that staff face any consequences for this?

Indeed the staff rushed into punishing the guy, but

1. You forgot what happens when the person can't understand the warning and will just end muted anyway, what then? Where are the Guides, ICM, Country Players, to warn the guy and explain him? Guides in particular that want to claim to help server grow with new players yet these cases are blindly left behind.

Then stop adding useless rank-whores as ICM's, Guides and staff members. It's extremely demotivating to be playing when most of the "important" roles are filled with people that are against you, even guides ignore people that need help just because they dislike them.

3. We changed ingame rules not so long ago to be specific and clear, yet staff has still to interpret then and change them based on "leniency" only to get blamed by players for not doing a proper job. So if this is the case, my guess is the change was just petty and useless.

This actually helped a bit, it made it so completely stupid shit like suicide-bombing people with a hydra wouldn't be punishable which was a step in the right direction, for it to work at its fullest though you need a robust structure which punishes staff/icm/pam/guides when they don't do their job properly and fairly.





This exactly.

Rephrased: We'll just continue punishing for trivial stuff, and then we'll let you waste your time even more by letting you make an appeal on the forum, which by the time the appeal gets responded to, your punishment time would've most likely already been served, meanwhile the staff who issued the punishment goes on regularly without repercussions. (Especially if it's a newer player, then he also has to create a forum account yet, and if he doesn't speak English, has to find someone to help him translate, and that's even if he knows about the appeal system in the first place...)

This is exactly the issue. So therefore, I agree with this suggestion, upvoting, we need more leniency.

I completely agree. Positive.

[Arran]

The solution I see is that they must make 2 messages before being muted this way it avoids any "fail" posts resulting in mute and also they might only make another non-English post if someone replies to them in that language and also it gives players a chance to say "english only in this chat" to them. This rule only exists so that main and team don't descend into a chaos of random language conversations so this adjustment will still ensure that chaos is prevented without being too strict.

- Adjusted the rule on non-English in main or team chat so that it's only mutable when 2 messages are posted. (Arran + Slow)