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Miscellaneous => General Chat => Debate => Topic started by: Sp1Ke on 02 04, 2021, 04:36:52 am

Title: Plant based meat what tastes/looks like same
Post by: Sp1Ke on 02 04, 2021, 04:36:52 am
So I have been watching a lot of videos related to this topic and to be honest, it looks too good to be true but somehow it actually is.

So basically they are making meat out of plants I know it sounds crazy but it's true.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-k-V3ESHcfA


for example, take a look at this video it explains how it's made and what are benefits it to the world.

My question here is to the meat lovers are you willing to change your diet and replace it with more natural and if not may you explain above
Title: Re: Plant based meat what tastes/looks like same
Post by: Justice on 02 04, 2021, 05:03:03 am
In our country some people/shop creates a burger meat out of vegetables. Not gonna lie, I am not surprised that there are things that can replace meat. People can be talented at any ways, instead of eating unhealthy food, they would make something that can replace meat so that vegetarian people can experience different foods that requires meat.
Title: Re: Plant based meat what tastes/looks like same
Post by: OhhKarim on 02 04, 2021, 08:51:11 pm
My question here is to the meat lovers are you willing to change your diet and replace it with more natural and if not may you explain above

"More natural"? Your fake meat is not natural, real meat is natural. So the answer is no, I will not eat faux/artificial meat. And you are still taking stem cells from an animal, so it's still involving animals in the end, might as well do it the regular way so we can actually eat something natural.

(https://www.consumerfreedom.com/app/uploads/2019/08/FAKE_Ads_BlogPost-1024x989.png) (https://wellness.consumerfreedom.com/app/uploads/2019/12/Converted-940x0-c-default.jpg)

(I don't eat pig meat, but the picture is for reference)
Title: Re: Plant based meat what tastes/looks like same
Post by: Justice on 05 04, 2021, 07:04:59 am
"More natural"? Your fake meat is not natural, real meat is natural. So the answer is no, I will not eat faux/artificial meat. And you are still taking stem cells from an animal, so it's still involving animals in the end, might as well do it the regular way so we can actually eat something natural.

(https://www.consumerfreedom.com/app/uploads/2019/08/FAKE_Ads_BlogPost-1024x989.png) (https://wellness.consumerfreedom.com/app/uploads/2019/12/Converted-940x0-c-default.jpg)

(I don't eat pig meat, but the picture is for reference)
Yep, karim is right in which other foods that has used chemicals to produce foods that looks like meat is not natural. It is better to make looking meat vegetables then it would be called Healthy not natural. The natural meat is the real meat. Not plants that have been made as a meat.
Title: Re: Plant based meat what tastes/looks like same
Post by: Arran on 05 04, 2021, 10:07:38 am
(https://www.consumerfreedom.com/app/uploads/2019/08/FAKE_Ads_BlogPost-1024x989.png) (https://wellness.consumerfreedom.com/app/uploads/2019/12/Converted-940x0-c-default.jpg)

If you did a chemical analysis of meat you'll find traces of hundreds of chemicals that shouldn't be there. The same kind you'd find on most plants too but if you're eating meat it's worse as it gets concentrated. Plus animals are given more like they get given "medicine" like antibiotics on a regular basis even when they're not ill. If it was up to me, every chemical involved in something should have to be listed on the ingredients because only when people see how utterly disgusting everything is will they change. Like right now if you go buy a carrot vs an organic carrot both have no listed ingredients so they're just the same right? Well if the chemicals involved had to be listed and carrot had 20 toxic sounding chemicals vs possibly non on the organic people would really think twice. Of course this will never happen because "they" don't want you to know what's in your food. Currently the only way to find out is with a highly expensive scientific instrument like a mass spectrometer and a chemistry background to use the machine and interpret the results.

My question here is to the meat lovers are you willing to change your diet and replace it with more natural and if not may you explain above

I don't think most people care enough to, but when guys watch "game changers" on netflix and see the scene about how meat is so clearly not meant to be part of the human diet that it causes such a reduction in circulation that it basically gives you temporary erectile dysfunction (plus lower circulation reduces athletic performance, eventually causes strokes and heart attacks, etc) but if you eat meat everyday it's not temporary so what you think is normal is actually erectile dysfunction.

There's a bit where they actually show blood samples and you can see the animal fat floating around in those that ate the meat but nothing from the plant fat from those that ate the avocado but it's not in this clip from the documentary: (it's floating around in the blood because the body isn't designed to use it so it stays in the blood until your liver / kidneys filter it out.)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vYsxJ4fgUGU
Title: Re: Plant based meat what tastes/looks like same
Post by: Dimit on 07 04, 2021, 10:18:06 pm
I usually eat Beyond meat burgers these days, which actually tastes exactly like high quality real meat while being 100 times more healthy and environmentally friendly

I dont recommend you to use the cheaper brands though beacuse they dont taste exactly as real meat yet, but that will change over the next few years while the market still grows

real meat will soon be a nieche product in developed countries
Title: Re: Plant based meat what tastes/looks like same
Post by: OhhKarim on 08 04, 2021, 12:21:32 am
I usually eat Beyond meat burgers these days, which actually tastes exactly like high quality real meat while being 100 times more healthy and environmentally friendly

Can you explain how it's 100x better? I simply typed "is beyond burger healthy" on google, and the first paragraph says:

Quote from: https://www.womenshealthmag.com/food/a21566428/beyond-meat-burger-ingredients/#:~:text=Beyond%20Burgers%20are%20vegan%20and,def%20doesn't%20count).
Beyond Burgers are vegan and plant-based, so that means they’re healthy too, right? Not exactly. While the Beyond Burger may have a good amount of protein (20 grams), it doesn’t exactly have vegetables (pea protein isolate def doesn’t count). So despite being a "veggie burger," it's not getting you any closer to your five to seven servings of vegetables a day, says Goodson.



real meat will soon be a nieche product in developed countries

Just like cigarettes were going to be a niche product and be replaced by vape and e-cigs? Didn't happen too.
Title: Re: Plant based meat what tastes/looks like same
Post by: DeathWish on 08 04, 2021, 12:50:50 am
Well, the question is is it really healthier to eat this made-up meat? This is the question that needs answering because if it really is it would be more of a hit I guess?

I consume meat a lot of pork chicken lamb sheep etc and it is a big part of my food diet because of its taste meat just tastes a lot better than whatever vegans eat so there are 2 steps here
1) Make fake meat taste the same as regular meat or better because people eat meat because of its taste
2) And, make fake meat healthier or as healthy as regular meat is (not calling meat healthy but you get the jest)

IMO if they get both right then it may replace meat in the future and I myself willing to switch to fake meat if that 2 stuff actually become a reality
Title: Re: Plant based meat what tastes/looks like same
Post by: Dimit on 08 04, 2021, 05:30:38 am
Can you explain how it's 100x better? I simply typed "is beyond burger healthy" on google, and the first paragraph says:


Quote
Quote from: https://www.womenshealthmag.com/food/a21566428/beyond-meat-burger-ingredients/#:~:text=Beyond%20Burgers%20are%20vegan%20and,def%20doesn't%20count).

    Beyond Burgers are vegan and plant-based, so that means they’re healthy too, right? Not exactly. While the Beyond Burger may have a good amount of protein (20 grams), it doesn’t exactly have vegetables (pea protein isolate def doesn’t count). So despite being a "veggie burger," it's not getting you any closer to your five to seven servings of vegetables a day, says Goodson.

LOL and??? If you want to eat vegetables eat vegetables, off topic argument  :fp:

It doesnt contain any unhealthy stuff, and even cheaper, more industrial alternatives with cheap ingredients are still less unhealthy and less unecological than real meat


Just like cigarettes were going to be a niche product and be replaced by vape and e-cigs? Didn't happen too.
what a dumb and false comparison

(https://content.gallup.com/origin/gallupinc/GallupSpaces/Production/Cms/POLL/u_queauuoemkdrhscrgsvg.png)
(https://www.rauchfrei-info.de/fileadmin/_processed_/csm_BZGA-2663-diagramm-02_fdd9bef004.png)

Smoking is an addiction which mostly only ends when the addict dies

Meanwhile the percentage of vape users is exploding among people who havent even been smoking before (mostly low IQ children who find it cool when smoke comes out of their mouth)
(https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/624/cpsprodpb/13327/production/_101813687_chart-numberofvapersglobally-4qmmk-nc.png)
Title: Re: Plant based meat what tastes/looks like same
Post by: Arran on 08 04, 2021, 11:22:40 am
mostly low IQ children who find it cool when smoke comes out of their mouth

LOL that made me laugh for like 30 seconds. It's like, so straight to the core and true.

meat just tastes a lot better than whatever vegans eat

"whatever vegans eat"... Do you eat bread? Do you eat pasta? Do you eat potatoes? Do you eat any fruit or vegetables? Most things that you eat are "vegan" AKA anything that isn't from an enslaved being.

because of its taste meat just tastes a lot better

Well I guess all we can say to that is, you pay for the taste. Eating meat gives you an instant reward of happy drugs in your brain, at the cost of the long term damage to your body and the potentially permanent damage it does to our shared environment and then whatever repercussions they may be in the non physical realms (like having to reincarnate as one of these animals that gets tortured before being murdered).
Title: Re: Plant based meat what tastes/looks like same
Post by: DeathWish on 08 04, 2021, 11:46:49 am
"whatever vegans eat"... Do you eat bread? Do you eat pasta? Do you eat potatoes? Do you eat any fruit or vegetables? Most things that you eat are "vegan" AKA anything that isn't from an enslaved being.

I know what vegans eat basically anything that doesn't involve killing or as you said "enslaved" (correct me if I'm wrong here) it is just I didn't want to write this sentence


Well I guess all we can say to that is, you pay for the taste. Eating meat gives you an instant reward of happy drugs in your brain, at the cost of the long term damage to your body and the potentially permanent damage it does to our shared environment

I like how you play with words and twist them and still make 0 sense. What the fuck are you talking about not a single human being eats anything that tastes shit unless they are forced to so just because it is meat you are saying it is like drugs? In addition, meat has been in a human's diet since I don't know when and yet the human race has prevailed over this "disease" and damaging food yes it can be unhealthy if you don't know what are you doing and chug meat every 10 mins but if you eat like a normal human being with normal amounts you should be fine and live a happy life until 80-100 years old (of course you have to do other stuff like doing exercise but you get the jest). I have to agree that a lot of brands hurt their environment with shitty way of providing us meat and this I can get behind of.

and then whatever repercussions they may be in the non physical realms (like having to reincarnate as one of these animals that gets tortured before being murdered).

Show content
(https://i.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/030/414/plant.jpg)
Title: Re: Plant based meat what tastes/looks like same
Post by: OhhKarim on 08 04, 2021, 11:32:33 pm
what a dumb and false comparison

Nope, let me explain it again to you. You said that fake meat will overtake real meat and that real meat will become a niche product, which I believe is false, considering that this has been said before about cigarettes before, that vape/e-cigs would make normal cigarettes become niche, which didn't happen and neither did your irrelevant statistics pictures prove me wrong.

There are only 41 million e-cigarette users worldwide according to the WHO (2018 statistics), compared to 1 billion+ cigarette users worldwide.

Quote from: https://www.singlecare.com/blog/news/vaping-statistics/#:~:text=How%20many%20people%20in%20the,million%20by%202021%20(Euromonitor).
There were 41 million e-cigarette users worldwide (World Health Organization) as of 2018, and that number is expected to reach 55 million by 2021 (Euromonitor).

Quote from: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_cigarette_consumption_per_capita#:~:text=Cigarettes%20are%20smoked%20by%20over,tobacco%20consumption%20continues%20to%20rise.
Cigarettes are smoked by over 1 billion people, which is nearly 20% of the world's population in 2014. About 800 million of these smokers are men. While smoking rates have leveled off or declined in developed nations, especially among men, in developing nations tobacco consumption continues to rise.

Similarly, fake meat won't make real meat niche. Fake meat might become more popular among vegans etc but not amongst regular people. Not to mention it seems kinda dumb why a vegan would want to eat something that replicates the exact product they are trying to avoid. Lastly, yes smoking is indeed stupid and indeed many children usually do it either to look cool or because they think it's the only way to relieve stress, personally I've never smoked and hopefully never will, never fell into "peer pressure" from my mates, which many of them smoke either cigarettes, vape, shisha or weed.

Back to the main topic, you didn't prove your claim that fake meat is more healthy. Could you elaborate?
Title: Re: Plant based meat what tastes/looks like same
Post by: Arran on 09 04, 2021, 09:59:42 am
I like how you play with words and twist them and still make 0 sense. What the fuck are you talking about not a single human being eats anything that tastes shit unless they are forced to so just because it is meat you are saying it is like drugs? In addition, meat has been in a human's diet since I don't know when and yet the human race has prevailed over this "disease" and damaging food yes it can be unhealthy if you don't know what are you doing and chug meat every 10 mins but if you eat like a normal human being with normal amounts you should be fine and live a happy life until 80-100 years old (of course you have to do other stuff like doing exercise but you get the jest). I have to agree that a lot of brands hurt their environment with shitty way of providing us meat and this I can get behind of.

Eating anything that tastes good, more so if it contains certain things that food industry knows the body craves like fat, salt and sugar, will release the "happy drugs" in the brain. My point is that there are hundreds of things that release such drugs which aren't meat.

What humans used to eat thousands of years ago is an assumption, the only evidence that humans might have even possibly ate meat are some spear heads. Also any meat that was eaten before about 1950 (when toxic chemicals started being used by agriculture) was completely different to the stuff now. Those farm animals weren't caged up, pumped up with drugs like antibiotics, fed unnatural toxic feed, etc. Animals might look the same on the outside, just like how an organic carrot and a carrot look the same on the outside, at the microscopic level there are big problems. One of the most noticeable ways that can be seen is how the color of a chickens egg yolk changes based on it's diet like if it's a factory farm chicken fed just grain it's yellow but if it's a chicken that can go outside and eat insects it's orange.
Title: Re: Plant based meat what tastes/looks like same
Post by: domi on 09 04, 2021, 12:49:29 pm
I'd try plant based meat. Why not?

But this isn't going to stop people from doing what they like to do. Humans love to eat meat. It's just how it works.

Some stuff cannot be changed. As an example, let's take gossip. Gossip may be immoral and hurtful to everyone involved, yet we still indulge in it from time to time.  Nothing I can do as an individual is going to stop people from talking shit about others.

Similarly, I can't stop people from eating meat.  And while we are at it, I can't stop animals from eating other animals.

The truth is that we cannot fix everything in this world. I heavily abstain from eating more intelligent animals (e.g. red meat), but I understand others will not follow my lead.

We should focus on more practical solutions instead of calling for everyone to stop eating animals, which is simply not going to happen. Humans are going to eat meat no matter what, so let's try to lessen the suffering of animals by promoting free range products and by making sure animals are humanely done away with.
Title: Re: Plant based meat what tastes/looks like same
Post by: OhhKarim on 09 04, 2021, 03:38:17 pm
We should focus on more practical solutions instead of calling for everyone to stop eating animals, which is simply not going to happen. Humans are going to eat meat no matter what, so let's try to lessen the suffering of animals by promoting free range products and by making sure animals are humanely done away with.

Common sense is hard for a lot of vegans. I can't take them serious when many of them who I've debated with are continuously being hypocrites. Some examples:

- Being vegan because they are against the killing of innocent beings, yet support abortion.
- Saying they don't eat animals because animals are intelligent, then supports abortion, which is the killing of the babies of the smartest species on earth.
- Other vegans saying that "you shouldn't eat them, because if it wasn't in the shop readily packaged, you wouldn't kill those animals for your food supply, at least only kill what you eat" yet then they shit on hunters for killing animals for food supply LOL

(I've even seen them say hunters should die or get eaten by bears etc, I thought they were against the killing of any living being hmm)

I know Arran is not one of them, he seems to be mostly against meat eating because of the way animals are treated and because he thinks we're not designed to eat animals, but this is from my experience.

What humans used to eat thousands of years ago is an assumption, the only evidence that humans might have even possibly ate meat are some spear heads.

Even if I give you the benefit of the doubt there, we cannot ignore the fact that the majority of humans are religious, and many religions allow the eating of animals, or even saying that animals are created for our food consumption. So how are you going to convince such people? Someone on this forum said before that the majority of people will turn vegan in the future, I believe that's complete bollocks.

Also any meat that was eaten before about 1950 (when toxic chemicals started being used by agriculture) was completely different to the stuff now. Those farm animals weren't caged up, pumped up with drugs like antibiotics, fed unnatural toxic feed, etc.

Assuming that all meat we eat is like that. I am eating meat that is butchered at a local butcher, sometimes they do it in the back of the shop if there is no meat readily packaged (which again, was butchered in their own shop). Also, fruit here from local shops are different than the ones from big supermarkets. For example, certain vegetables don't look as firm and shiny as the ones on the shelves in supermarkets.
Title: Re: Plant based meat what tastes/looks like same
Post by: Arran on 10 04, 2021, 10:45:13 am
But this isn't going to stop people from doing what they like to do. Humans love to eat meat. It's just how it works.

Some stuff cannot be changed.

You'd be surprised. I bet a lot of African Americans who were living in America when they were made to sit in a separate part of the bus and such would have thought that it would always be like that. Or in the medieval times when it was normal to torture people for I don't even know why like putting a rat on their abdomen and then a hot cage over the top to make the rat escape the heat by eating down into their abdomen like that shit is so fucking sick that nobody nowadays would even think of that let alone do it.

There is some kind of collective consciousness which at first is very difficult to change but gets exponentially easier over time.

Quote from: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tipping_point_(sociology)
In sociology, a tipping point is a point in time when a group—or many group members—rapidly and dramatically changes its behavior by widely adopting a previously rare practice.

Quote from: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hundredth_monkey_effect
The hundredth monkey effect is a hypothetical phenomenon in which a new behavior or idea is spread rapidly by unexplained means from one group to all related groups once a critical number of members of one group exhibit the new behavior or acknowledge the new idea. The behavior was said to propagate even to groups that are physically separated and have no apparent means of communicating with each other.

Quote from: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Critical_mass_(sociodynamics)
In social dynamics, critical mass is a sufficient number of adopters of a new idea, technology or innovation in a social system so that the rate of adoption becomes self-sustaining and creates further growth. The point at which critical mass is achieved is sometimes referred to as a threshold within the threshold model of statistical modeling.

I don't know about your shops, but here there are vegan products popping up in shops, like vegan ice cream which I've been eating and I bet you wouldn't even realise it was vegan if someone offered you some as just "ice cream". So I think that it's safe to say we've reached that point where enough people have adopted the new idea that there is no stopping this now and eventually through the changing collective consciousness it will become the norm.
Title: Re: Plant based meat what tastes/looks like same
Post by: Dimit on 10 04, 2021, 06:31:01 pm
Nope, let me explain it again to you. You said that fake meat will overtake real meat and that real meat will become a niche product, which I believe is false, considering that this has been said before about cigarettes before, that vape/e-cigs would make normal cigarettes become niche, which didn't happen and neither did your irrelevant statistics pictures prove me wrong.

There are only 41 million e-cigarette users worldwide according to the WHO (2018 statistics), compared to 1 billion+ cigarette users worldwide.
Yes, it doesnt matter whats happening at other places of the world, my 2 graphics are showing the numbers at developed countries because obviously something which is based on development of advanced societies is only related to developed areas, in which cigarettes are indeed becoming a nieche product as shown in the graphs

Similarly, fake meat won't make real meat niche. Fake meat might become more popular among vegans etc but not amongst regular people. Not to mention it seems kinda dumb why a vegan would want to eat something that replicates the exact product they are trying to avoid. Lastly, yes smoking is indeed stupid and indeed many children usually do it either to look cool or because they think it's the only way to relieve stress, personally I've never smoked and hopefully never will, never fell into "peer pressure" from my mates, which many of them smoke either cigarettes, vape, shisha or weed.

Back to the main topic, you didn't prove your claim that fake meat is more healthy. Could you elaborate?
It has already been explained by me and other people in different meat related debates on this board how meat is unhealthy, carcinogenic and very harmful for the environment, yet you keep asking the same question again and again

- Being vegan because they are against the killing of innocent beings, yet support abortion.
- Saying they don't eat animals because animals are intelligent, then supports abortion, which is the killing of the babies of the smartest species on earth.
Abortions affect unborn embryos, usually only a few weeks old pieces of tissue, not fully grown, healthy, conscious animals, and the reason why developed populations are starting to limit meat production and consumption is not only the fact that they are being slaughtered, but also the way they are being held and the environmental impact they cause, which shows that you dont really understand anything about the meat subject even while it has already been debated several times on this board

And by the way, "babies" are children during their first year after birth, what you are referring to are "embyros". Not being able to even use the correct terminology shows that you ALSO dont seem qualified and informed enough to share a meaningful post about abortion, something that has also been debated on this board multiple times in the past

So that makes me wonder if you have an actual memory issue or you just intentionally keep repeating these ben shapiro-style arguments while already knowing that the following posts will only be used to correct you and explain the most basic things to you that have already been explained to you several times?
Title: Re: Plant based meat what tastes/looks like same
Post by: domi on 10 04, 2021, 08:10:06 pm
There is some kind of collective consciousness which at first is very difficult to change but gets exponentially easier over time.

Thanks for the comment. Anyway, I believe these sociological effects may not be effective for ingrained behavior such as the desire for meat consumption.

It's hard to deny that humans love to eat animal meat as much as they love to have sex.

Not even religious encouragement can stop people from eating meat.  Just look at India. Only 1 in 3 people in India are vegetarians despite the fact that vegetarianism is encouraged by mainstream interpretations of Hindu scriptures. Vegetarianism was even encouraged by their leader Gandhi.

I will grant you the following: in an ideal world, we would have lions and zebras singing kumbaya. We would have thousands of humans and thousands of cows minding their own business instead of humans preparing the other animal species for dinner.

In an ideal world, we would have no wars, we would have no family fights and no thieves.

But these are not our circumstances here on Earth. We are not living in an ideal world. We can do something to minimize suffering as much as possible, and that's about it.  Considering the insatiable human desire for meat, focusing on practical solutions is more realistic than "let's all stop eating meat".

You'd be surprised. I bet a lot of African Americans who were living in America when they were made to sit in a separate part of the bus and such would have thought that it would always be like that


Government-mandated racial segregation was not very common in history before colonialism and Jim Crow.

In contrast, eating meat and spreading gossip have been permanent practices in societies since prehistoric times. 
Title: Re: Plant based meat what tastes/looks like same
Post by: Arran on 11 04, 2021, 10:06:42 am
We can do something to minimize suffering as much as possible, and that's about it.

Not eating meat, or more specifically not buying any meat (or even better any animal product) is the best thing we can do in our lives to minimize the suffering going on in this world as buying meat or any animal products is profit for those who commit the most unimaginable suffering. All human suffering is nothing compared to the suffering of the tens of billions of farm animals alive right now some of which are in cages so small they never been able to even turn around like this:

Show content
(https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=http%3A%2F%2Fdarkroom.baltimoresun.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2012%2F10%2FREU-EU-PIGS_.jpg&f=1&nofb=1)


I even saw one video where the pig was so cramped it had to CRUSH IT'S OWN BABIES TO DEATH. These sick disgusting humans are getting rich from everyone buying the meat they sell and they'll only stop when we stop buying it and since my words and the above image is not enough how about a short video of what is happening across the world in farms:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4kzwxN2QlmA
Title: Re: Plant based meat what tastes/looks like same
Post by: domi on 11 04, 2021, 11:34:57 am
I understand where you're coming from.

However, I believe you're anthropomorphizing. Yes, it would be awful if these animals were human. But farm animals are different than us. They do not have prefrontal cortex, so their experiences are not the same as ours. And they wouldn't live much better lives in the wild. In fact, farm animals have lower cortisol levels (stress hormones) than animals in the wild.

Farmers only respond to people's demand. It is people's ingrained appetite for meat that's driving the whole thing. I think trying to completely stop this appetite is futile. It is programmed in us like the appetites for gossip or even sex. It's part of who we are... blame evolution.

Meat producers should be more ethical in their approach to treating animals. But meat producers also make affordable meat for ordinary people and the hospitality industry. Whether we like it or not, humans evaluate job opportunities based on potential salaries. Then they go on to spend a good part of these salaries on meat consumption, travel and going out with their loved ones … where they eat meat together. 

When they travel, humans order meat in hotels and so on. If meat was more expensive, perhaps the whole economic system would collapse. Meat producers are using these practices because of the human condition. It is everyone's fault, and most importantly it is nature's fault.
Title: Re: Plant based meat what tastes/looks like same
Post by: DeathWish on 11 04, 2021, 12:50:23 pm
Show content
Not eating meat, or more specifically not buying any meat (or even better any animal product) is the best thing we can do in our lives to minimize the suffering going on in this world as buying meat or any animal products is profit for those who commit the most unimaginable suffering. All human suffering is nothing compared to the suffering of the tens of billions of farm animals alive right now some of which are in cages so small they never been able to even turn around like this:

Show content
(https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=http%3A%2F%2Fdarkroom.baltimoresun.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2012%2F10%2FREU-EU-PIGS_.jpg&f=1&nofb=1)


I even saw one video where the pig was so cramped it had to CRUSH IT'S OWN BABIES TO DEATH. These sick disgusting humans are getting rich from everyone buying the meat they sell and they'll only stop when we stop buying it and since my words and the above image is not enough how about a short video of what is happening across the world in farms:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4kzwxN2QlmA

I agree, how these animals are being treated is inhumane as fuck but stopping to eat meat isn't the solution to fix this problem why should the solution only come from the people? why are you telling people to stop eating meat and belittling them and making them out be as villains when the actual villains are corps like those which do all of this to those poor animals? a lot of Arabic societies are still old fashioned in my "village" animals that are getting butchered are being butchered in as humane as possible and they live a normal life actually not forced in such farms (I have visited countless places where butchers get their meat from) so the only issue here is greed because it costs less to treat those animals like these so instead of stopping and telling people to stop eating meat just tell them to eat meat from places that don't do such inhumane acts to animals

Corps like these care about money and making more money than their competitors once companies that treats animals humanely start to get traction and more money and people switching people this will trigger a much bigger change
Title: Re: Plant based meat what tastes/looks like same
Post by: Arran on 12 04, 2021, 11:28:40 am
a lot of Arabic societies are still old fashioned in my "village" animals that are getting butchered are being butchered in as humane as possible and they live a normal life actually not forced in such farms

Are there any fast food shops like McDonalds? Any shop like that tries to maximise profits so buys the cheapest, factory farmed meat.

But farm animals are different than us. They do not have prefrontal cortex

Oh right so it's okay to torture and murder every animal in the world, all the worlds beloved animals like cats and dogs all because "they do not have prefrontal cortex". Some humans are psychopaths like those whose job it is to murder animals all day and wouldn't even feel any emotion murdering you. Would you rather be stuck in a cage with a serial killing psychopath human, or a cat or dog?

It is programmed in us

Well I don't know about you but I don't get any urge to kill any animal that I see. If you've ever seen a cat they are most certainly programmed to catch small animals like rats, they instantly go into their hunting pose when they spot a target. I don't see humans doing that whenever they see a chicken, pig or cow. Or has anyone ever said anything like "I get this uncontrollable urge to grab the nearest sharp object and go stab that animal to death". Oh, actually you're right, it is programmed in us, by our parents. If you parents feed you meat then until you use your conscious mind (probably that prefrontal cortex you were mentioning) to question your habits then nothing would ever change. All habits are learned and can be unlearned.
Title: Re: Plant based meat what tastes/looks like same
Post by: domi on 12 04, 2021, 12:59:47 pm
It's just debate.

Anyway, I'm not arguing that meat consumption is alright because it's natural and programmed in us. Instead, I'm saying that trying to stop it is futile because of those reasons.

Nature is amoral. It's neither good nor bad. Seeing a lion crushing a zebra may not be a pleasant sight, but there's nothing wrong with it. It's just how it is.

Even growing food for vegans results in countless animal deaths because the crops must be protected from animal predators. There are no ideal solutions. Extracting raw materials for cell phones results in  destruction of animal habitants. Scientists harm animals by experimenting with them. So unless someone wants to completely give up 21st century life and medicine, it's hard not to harm animals.

Idealism does not seem to be workable and practical.

Dogs and cats have special significance only because we  give them special significance. We like to hang out with them more than we like to hang out with other animals, and because humans have special rights, these rights extend to their pets. Pets have special rights out of the respect we have for the human owners. 

Nature is fucked and we can't fix it. Our priorities should be set on human flourishing and eradication of extreme poverty.
Title: Re: Plant based meat what tastes/looks like same
Post by: DeathWish on 12 04, 2021, 01:14:25 pm
Are there any fast food shops like McDonalds? Any shop like that tries to maximise profits so buys the cheapest, factory farmed meat.

Oh how disingenuous you are, you choose to look at what supports your idea and what doesn't as I mentioned many many places that butcher animals in a humane way you can choose and promote those businesses instead of urging people to stop eating meat because this will never happen you can compare meat to racism and segregation as much you want but please don't tell me you believe those are on the same level if so you are delusional. I agree how those animals are being treated is horrendous and so I chose a long time ago to buy my meat locally me and my family members where animals do live a normal life and no I rarely eat Mcdonalds since its shit food at best and I avoid most fast-food restaurants

Many many restaurants here buy their meat from local farms where butchers get their meat as well and yes they charge a bit more but it is still healthier and good the animals so yes instead of telling people to "stop" eating meat maybe direct them to places where you know they treat animals better.

Imagine if instead of actually trying to stop people from eating meat you direct your friends/family members to a butcher who buys from local farm and restaurants who does the same you have the advantage of the internet use it that way you will have a much bigger impact on and actually make a bigger change
Title: Re: Plant based meat what tastes/looks like same
Post by: Mohammad. on 13 04, 2021, 06:52:27 pm
I usually eat Beyond meat burgers these days, which actually tastes exactly like high quality real meat while being 100 times more healthy and environmentally friendly

I dont recommend you to use the cheaper brands though beacuse they dont taste exactly as real meat yet, but that will change over the next few years while the market still grows

real meat will soon be a nieche product in developed countries
At least they'll start sending huge meat supplies to poor countries in Africa when that happens, so I really hope it does work in "Developed Countries", Regardless of it being actually harmful, or not.
Title: Re: Plant based meat what tastes/looks like same
Post by: Dimit on 14 04, 2021, 12:51:33 pm
At least they'll start sending huge meat supplies to poor countries in Africa when that happens, so I really hope it does work in "Developed Countries", Regardless of it being actually harmful, or not.
not sure what you are trying to say with your post or what it has to do with this debate
Title: Re: Plant based meat what tastes/looks like same
Post by: OhhKarim on 16 04, 2021, 12:10:14 pm
Yes, it doesnt matter whats happening at other places of the world

If you didn't care about what's happening in other places of the world, you wouldn't criticize and judge the way you constantly do.

my 2 graphics are showing the numbers at developed countries because obviously something which is based on development of advanced societies is only related to developed areas, in which cigarettes are indeed becoming a nieche product as shown in the graphs

A decrease doesn't mean it has become a niche product. Many 'advanced countries' are still amongst the highest smokers: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_cigarette_consumption_per_capita with Luxembourg even being on the number 2 spot.

Niche: denoting products, services, or interests that appeal to a small, specialized section of the population.

Contrarily, vegan products are a niche and will be so. A small increase over the years, doesn't mean vegan won't be niche anymore. It will always be the minority diet of mankind, which I know, boils your blood.



It has already been explained by me and other people in different meat related debates on this board how meat is unhealthy, carcinogenic and very harmful for the environment, yet you keep asking the same question again and again

One thing being unhealthy, doesn't make another product healthy. Fast food is also carcinogenic, sugary drinks are too, and even alcohol is. But I don't see you trying to make alcohol illegal, or at least trying to incentivize people not to drink. Not to mention, I am the one who decides to eat healthy or not, nobody else. First world countries are already facing continuous increased obesity so it's funny how you try to link those 'advanced countries' to a seemingly healthy approach regarding food intake, when in fact, they have high obesity rates for people who should be 'advanced' enough to know that eating too much, or specifically unhealthy food, considering they receive more education than underdeveloped countries (hence other countries may still have higher rates).

(https://ourworldindata.org/exports/share-of-adults-who-are-overweight_v5_850x600.svg)



Abortions affect unborn embryos, usually only a few weeks old pieces of tissue, not fully grown, healthy, conscious animals

They affect unborn embryos and fetuses, which are human offspring in its earliest stages, they are already alive since conception (scientifically proven), so killing them is unethical to anyone with a hinch of common sense.

And by the way, "babies" are children during their first year after birth, what you are referring to are "embyros". Not being able to even use the correct terminology shows that you ALSO dont seem qualified and informed enough to share a meaningful post about abortion, something that has also been debated on this board multiple times in the past

Human offspring, unborn baby, embryo/fetus (depending on the stage), are all correct terms. I can call my car multiple things and it will still be correct: It's a vehicle, it's a transportation method, it's a car, etc. Neither are wrong, they are merely words to explain something. The matter fact is, no matter what you call it, it's human offspring that is alive and growing, so killing it is unethical.

So that makes me wonder if you have an actual memory issue or you just intentionally keep repeating these ben shapiro-style arguments while already knowing that the following posts will only be used to correct you and explain the most basic things to you that have already been explained to you several times?

You can keep talking about that jew called ben shapiro, I don't even know his standpoints on most topics because he is pro-israel so I do not watch his content. You can keep trying to insult me, it has zero affect on me, I don't care about words unlike leftists.
Title: Re: Plant based meat what tastes/looks like same
Post by: DeathWish on 16 04, 2021, 12:14:38 pm
You can keep talking about that jew called ben shapiro

Why do you have to mention that he is Jewish? racist much? it brings nothing to the table that you mention that Ben Shapiro is Jewish so you better cut it out unless it becomes relevant to the subject

@Dimit is this type of shit allowed? this is his 3rd of 4th post he does this
Title: Re: Plant based meat what tastes/looks like same
Post by: OhhKarim on 16 04, 2021, 12:19:19 pm
Why do you have to mention that he is Jewish? racist much? it brings nothing to the table that you mention that Ben Shapiro is Jewish so you better cut it out unless it becomes relevant to the subject

@Dimit is this type of shit allowed? this is his 3rd of 4th post he does this

As far as I am aware, jews aren't a race so it is not possible for it to be a racist statement. Secondly, if you are associating the word 'jew' with something negative, no matter the context, then that is your own problem. Isn't that guy a jew? I'm pretty sure he is, in that case, why wouldn't I be able to refer to him as a jew if he is a jew? And even if he wasn't a jew, a jew isn't an insult, it's someone who follows judaism. Toughen up.
Title: Re: Plant based meat what tastes/looks like same
Post by: DeathWish on 16 04, 2021, 01:00:27 pm
As far as I am aware, jews aren't a race so it is not possible for it to be a racist statement

Oh, so discrimination against Muslims in America doesn't exist? so people being denied positions being searched because they are Muslims is nothing right? after 9/11 everyone woman with Hijab would be considered a terrorist that isn't racist then? I know racist is more of a race thing but the term also means discrimination against a certain group of people because of religion color or community

Secondly, if you are associating the word 'jew' with something negative, no matter the context, then that is your own problem. Isn't that guy a jew? I'm pretty sure he is, in that case, why wouldn't I be able to refer to him as a jew if he is a jew? And even if he wasn't a jew, a jew isn't an insult, it's someone who follows judaism. Toughen up.

Why refer to someone as a jew then? why does that matter if he is Jewish or not? that brings nothing to the argument the only reason you mentioned Jewish is because of your own personal reasons and knowing you it is most likely to discriminate against that person, would you like to be referred to as that Muslim ohhkarim everywhere you go? would you like to go inside a cafe and be called Muslim <name here> wouldn't you feel weird that they have to call out your religion? and don't give me that bs I'm proud of being a Muslim and yes while infact you would cry if someone kept doing that to you so cut yourself short and if you can't behave decently when mentioning others you can gtfo

This isn't relevant to the subject so I will not respond to any more of your stupid replies because this isn't a debate
Title: Re: Plant based meat what tastes/looks like same
Post by: OhhKarim on 16 04, 2021, 01:12:07 pm
Oh, so discrimination against Muslims in America doesn't exist? so people being denied positions being searched because they are Muslims is nothing right? after 9/11 everyone woman with Hijab would be considered a terrorist that isn't racist then? I know racist is more of a race thing but the term also means discrimination against a certain group of people because of religion color or community

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F8CJezPcCuc

Why refer to someone as a jew then?

Because he is one? Am I not allowed to refer to people by what they are? And who decides what's good to be referred by? Should I try to contact him on his email to see what he prefers to be referred to as? Again, toughen up, making problems out of nothing.

would you like to be referred to as that Muslim ohhkarim everywhere you go? would you like to go inside a cafe and be called Muslim <name here> wouldn't you feel weird that they have to call out your religion? and don't give me that bs I'm proud of being a Muslim and yes while infact you would cry if someone kept doing that to you so cut yourself short and if you can't behave decently when mentioning others you can gtfo

Man you can call me anything you want, unlike you, I don't care, it's just a word. I don't get offended by anything people say.

This isn't relevant to the subject so I will not respond to any more of your stupid replies because this isn't a debate

You are the one who started making irrelevant replies, I am just explaining how you are wrong.
Title: Re: Plant based meat what tastes/looks like same
Post by: Dimit on 16 04, 2021, 02:21:28 pm
Why do you have to mention that he is Jewish? racist much? it brings nothing to the table that you mention that Ben Shapiro is Jewish so you better cut it out unless it becomes relevant to the subject

@Dimit is this type of shit allowed? this is his 3rd of 4th post he does this
Thank you for informing me, its not the first time that ohhkarim starts with insultive content when he is losing a debate

Ive edited out the racial offence from his post. I will also remove the off-topic argument above in 6 hours to clean up the debate again since they are not related to this debate, and I will keep my eyes open for further echo-antisemitism by ohhkarim

Btw im not suprised at all that even a plant-related debate on this board manages to somehow find a way to turn into a religious debate
Title: Re: Plant based meat what tastes/looks like same
Post by: Arran on 17 04, 2021, 10:34:13 am
Or you could just lock this debate since everyone has already said what they wanted to say.