Author Topic: [IMPLEMENTED] Decreasing grenades/satchels price back to $2000  (Read 928 times)

Offline OhhKarim

  • Senior Community Member
  • ****
  • Players of the Gold
  • Registered: 16/05/2015
    YearsYearsYearsYears
  • Group: Team eXodus #1
  • Ingame: OhhKarim
  • Squad: NoAP4U
Full explanation of the suggestion:
I'm suggesting to decrease the price of grenades/satchels back to $2000, they are currently $3000 per unit. The current $3000 per unit was suggested by Quartz in an 'effort' to decrease grenade spam in LV. We've now been playing with this update for over a year and clearly there has been no significant decrease in grenade spam. If anything, it has now only been harder for poorer players to fight, so it basically became more P2W which is something we should definitely avoid heading towards.

Tuesday 10th April 2018
- Increased price of grenades and satchels from $2000 to $3000. (Arran + Quartz)

The main thing we usually hear is 'then stop wasting money on grenades' not understanding that grenades spam have been happening since 2013 even before the instant switching binds and even still after the instant switching binds got removed recently, so this will not stop as this has become a casualty and completely fits with the standard of LV which is 'quality over quantity' where numbers shouldn't dictate who wins, rather skills. In case someone says grenades don't require skills, yeah you're wrong, I've seen plenty of LS'ers spamming grenades in LV Hospital and gaining zero kills. I've a video on my youtube channel as well in case necessary to prove and could upload more videos.

Brief explanation of the suggestion (in case TL;DR):
- Decrease the price of grenades/satchels back to $2000

The reasons as to why it should be decreased:
- There is an earnlimit of 360k per hour and the maximum we can earn now from turfs is 40k per 3 minutes, compared to the 80k per 3 minutes in the past. Therefore it's harder to earn money, thus having these explosives at $3000 is too expensive.
- The price was set to $3000 to prevent grenades spam, but that didn't happen, so that should already be enough to be reverted as it clearly didn't do as what was being suggested. LV players just love to use explosives, after all it's a chaotic city.
- By making an essential weapon so expensive, it's promoting a P2W playstyle which is not what we should be heading towards. Now rich players have a bigger advantage, it shouldn't be like that.
- The $3000 was suggested at the time when there was no explosive resistance, now, there is a /pr for 50% explosive resistance. Causing the explosives to do 30 damage after all resistances are being used. A weapon that does such low damage shouldn't be this expensive, ever. Honestly, the explosive resistance has done more efforts towards 'fixing grenades spam' than the $3000 price tag itself, considering it's not even worth it to buy explosives when having such high explosive resistance.

LV community support:






« Last Edit: 13 07, 2019, 03:52:17 pm by Arran »

Online chaiNN#

  • Junior Community Member
  • **
  • The Unbeatable~
  • Registered: 20/04/2017
    YearsYears
  • Ingame: chaiNN#
Re: [PROPOSAL] Decreasing grenades/satchels price back to $2000
« Reply #1 on: 02 07, 2019, 12:59:44 am »
I agree since some LV players can't Afford to buy nades/satchels if this suggestion gets accepted it would be fair enough for LV players
« Last Edit: 02 07, 2019, 01:03:32 am by chaiNN# »
"You can't have A better tomorrow if you don't stop thinking about yesterday"

Offline eXpire

  • The Institute Leader
  • Community Event Manager
  • *****
  • لا اله الا انت سبحانك اني كنت من الظالمين
  • Registered: 01/10/2016
    YearsYears
  • Group: The_Institute
  • Ingame: SeXp!re
  • Squad: #cB & #ES
Re: [PROPOSAL] Decreasing grenades/satchels price back to $2000
« Reply #2 on: 02 07, 2019, 04:56:06 am »
As a civilian, I would like to just state my opinion meanwhile I won't interfere in the voting process.

First, the unique style of our server was the various types of sides were all are required in your gameplay. And by saying so, I mean it's a part of the game where gangsters have to work to afford their daily gameplay in LV.

Second, I agree the update hasn't caused less spam in grenades, but I am sure returning it will cause explosives to be more common, more spammed.

Third, I was there when grenades used to cost 2,000$. But as payments increased, this update hasn't caused any change into our gameplay.
Explanation:
The most expensive vehicle back then was the Stafford to cost 2,500,000$ meanwhile the current costs more than 20 times more... and that proves that everything became more expensive just like how our job payments increased massively than the old CIT.

fourth, and just as you mentioned, it's already being spammed but not afforded by the minority. I am not positive with making it even more common.


« Last Edit: 02 07, 2019, 08:35:44 am by eXpire »


We strive hard for a better future - The Institute
كلمتان خفيفتان على اللسان، ثقيلتان في الميزان، حبيبتان إلى الرحمن: سبحان الله وبحمده، سبحان الله العظيم

Offline Ahmad L9

  • Regular Community Member
  • ***
  • Master your self, Master your enemy
  • Registered: 09/10/2015
    YearsYearsYears
  • Group: vvG ♦ ♥ ♦
  • Ingame: AAAhmad'1xK?
  • Squad: 1K1NG ofc ♥
Re: [PROPOSAL] Decreasing grenades/satchels price back to $2000
« Reply #3 on: 02 07, 2019, 11:37:01 am »
Well, we as LV Players like to play with satchels/nades a  lot and this suggestion would make us save a little bit of money to buy nades/satchels on the next wars/trolls etc.


So why not. I support this suggest
Proud founder of 1K1NG Squad ♥

                                 ViciousGaming - WingOfGold
                        ♥~>PUE - ShaCo - Bale - NewBoy - PUMA<~♥

Offline Randy

  • Regular Community Member
  • ***
  • "Si vis pacem,Para bellum"
  • Registered: 21/11/2015
    YearsYearsYears
  • Group: DoubleX3
Re: [PROPOSAL] Decreasing grenades/satchels price back to $2000
« Reply #4 on: 02 07, 2019, 11:42:51 am »
I believe this will increase the amount of spam, we need to find a solution to this as I see some players don't enjoy this spam.
for now, if this is what LV players want, then yeah I guess I have no problem with decreasing it.
If you make yourself more than just a man if you devote yourself to an ideal, you become something else entirely. Legend
Movies & Series board
a place where you can have fun

Offline Pepe

  • Senior Community Member
  • ****
  • Ingame Supporter
  • Registered: 05/12/2015
    YearsYearsYears
Re: [PROPOSAL] Decreasing grenades/satchels price back to $2000
« Reply #5 on: 02 07, 2019, 12:37:53 pm »
With the current state of competetive scene in LV, I think this will make your LV job overpaid. You're meant to work for your weapons, and earn money with these. Surprisingly, this has worked out well the past months.

So due to the fact that this will probably overpay your job, I disagree with this change.

Offline Dust

  • Junior Community Member
  • **
  • Registered: 19/01/2015
    YearsYearsYearsYears
  • Group: Banlieue13
Re: [PROPOSAL] Decreasing grenades/satchels price back to $2000
« Reply #6 on: 02 07, 2019, 01:08:07 pm »
There is a vote system in /settings. You can set ''explosives resistance'' while using it. This means,It does not give ''more damage'' like olds. It became $3000 when turf payments are increased but now,turf payments are bad too. So there is no reason to pay $3000 for a grenade.

Offline OhhKarim

  • Senior Community Member
  • ****
  • Players of the Gold
  • Registered: 16/05/2015
    YearsYearsYearsYears
  • Group: Team eXodus #1
  • Ingame: OhhKarim
  • Squad: NoAP4U
Re: [PROPOSAL] Decreasing grenades/satchels price back to $2000
« Reply #7 on: 02 07, 2019, 02:17:59 pm »
gangsters have to work to afford their daily gameplay in LV.
Except you don't earn shit from turfing anymore, the maximum turfing earning is 40k per 3 minutes, it used to be 80k per 3 minutes. Usually we don't earn any money from turfing because all our money gets wasted on ammunition. You are a civilian so you don't have to buy drugs, armor, ammunition, explosives, etc. You don't know how much money we lose, it's very hard to be able to buy these explosives.

Second, I agree the update hasn't caused less spam in grenades, but I am sure returning it will cause explosives to be more common, more spammed.
- First you agree that it didn't cause less spam
- Then you say returning it will cause more spam

How will it cause more spam, if the spam didn't even change? Are you listening to your own contradicting statement?


Third, I was there when grenades used to cost 2,000$. But as payments increased, this update hasn't caused any change into our gameplay.
Lmao, there are actually changes to the gameplay. We have an earn limit of 360k, we have a new cap of 40k per 3 minutes from turfing, and we earn less money from turfing because there are less players. We keep losing money, these explosives are too expensive. You are a civilian so you are not knowledged about the situation at all.

I believe this will increase the amount of spam, we need to find a solution to this as I see some players don't enjoy this spam.
for now, if this is what LV players want, then yeah I guess I have no problem with decreasing it.
1 - Having grenades set to $3000 didn't cause less grenade spam, so having it returned to $2000 will be the same. It will just allow everyone to use it, not just rich players.
2 - If players don't enjoy spam, then why don't they vote for the grenade delay in /pr? Because LV'ers like this spam.
3 - Yeah they want it, I clearly posted two screenshots of teamvotes, with 80-84% positive votes.

Offline eXpire

  • The Institute Leader
  • Community Event Manager
  • *****
  • لا اله الا انت سبحانك اني كنت من الظالمين
  • Registered: 01/10/2016
    YearsYears
  • Group: The_Institute
  • Ingame: SeXp!re
  • Squad: #cB & #ES
Re: [PROPOSAL] Decreasing grenades/satchels price back to $2000
« Reply #8 on: 02 07, 2019, 02:59:04 pm »
Except you don't earn shit from turfing anymore, the maximum turfing earning is 40k per 3 minutes, it used to be 80k per 3 minutes. Usually we don't earn any money from turfing because all our money gets wasted on ammunition. You are a civilian so you don't have to buy drugs, armor, ammunition, explosives, etc. You don't know how much money we lose, it's very hard to be able to buy these explosives.
What I am trying to say, is that I was an LV player once and even so I ain't gonna interfere in the voting process because I am not atm.

All I meant by the line you quoted was that LV players were supposed to work, work as civilians, to afford their gameplay in LV.
I have been doing this back in time.
 
- First you agree that it didn't cause less spam
- Then you say returning it will cause more spam

How will it cause more spam, if the spam didn't even change? Are you listening to your own contradicting statement?
No idea how you see that contradicting, let me remind you of something:
fourth, and just as you mentioned, it's already being spammed but not afforded by the minority. I am not positive with making it even more common.
Simply, people who have been spamming this since the beginning didn't choose to stop after an increase in the payment, but I expect those who weren't to spam them at least would do it after such an update. It will become more common^^ more people will use it^^ causes it to be more spammed in LV^^.
And here you prove my contradicting statement yourself:
Quote
1 - Having grenades set to $3000 didn't cause less grenade spam, so having it returned to $2000 will be the same. It will just allow everyone to use it, not just rich players.
You said it, more will afford it.
Lmao, there are actually changes to the gameplay. We have an earn limit of 360k, we have a new cap of 40k per 3 minutes from turfing, and we earn less money from turfing because there are less players. We keep losing money, these explosives are too expensive. You are a civilian so you are not knowledged about the situation at all.
Earn limit isn't everything. There is an amount of money rolling in the server between players' hands. Back in time as you were talking, I would say... we had about 10 to 15 or 20 billions? Currently, we got maybe 40 to 50 billions rolling between players' hands?
Obviously, everyone has been rich, at least more than before. And even hydra is now common in LV, at least more than before.

1 - Having grenades set to $3000 didn't cause less grenade spam, so having it returned to $2000 will be the same. It will just allow everyone to use it, not just rich players.
2 - If players don't enjoy spam, then why don't they vote for the grenade delay in /pr? Because LV'ers like this spam.
3 - Yeah they want it, I clearly posted two screenshots of teamvotes, with 80-84% positive votes.
you can't base such updates by players' choice... I can open a voting if they would like a giveaway from the server of DL3 weekly, who would refuse? Players would obviously agree on anything that makes the gameplay easier, but not being aware of, that it may ruin the server.

I don't want to sound rude, but it's an opinion & a statement I wanted to clear.


We strive hard for a better future - The Institute
كلمتان خفيفتان على اللسان، ثقيلتان في الميزان، حبيبتان إلى الرحمن: سبحان الله وبحمده، سبحان الله العظيم

Offline OhhKarim

  • Senior Community Member
  • ****
  • Players of the Gold
  • Registered: 16/05/2015
    YearsYearsYearsYears
  • Group: Team eXodus #1
  • Ingame: OhhKarim
  • Squad: NoAP4U
Re: [PROPOSAL] Decreasing grenades/satchels price back to $2000
« Reply #9 on: 02 07, 2019, 03:13:35 pm »
I have been doing this back in time.
Just because you've done it, doesn't mean others should too. We have a turfing system in LV to profit from instead of working boring jobs where you go rotate from X to Y place and click on pictures to get some iron for a whole hour, just to have this money wasted within 20 minutes.

let me remind you of something
So according to your logic, lets only allow rich players to spam grenades so that poorer players have no chance against them. That my friend, is called a P2W game which is not what we should be heading towards, which I already stated in my suggestion.

you can't base such updates by players' choice... I can open a voting if they would like a giveaway from the server of DL3 weekly, who would refuse? Players would obviously agree on anything that makes the gameplay easier, but not being aware of, that it may ruin the server.
No offense but that might actually be the worst argument I've ever heard. We can literally say this about every single update. Also, I think that there is a small difference, just veryyy small difference, between decreasing explosives by $1,000 compared to having a free $450,000,000 DL3 weekly. You know, the difference is only like $449,999,000, not that large or anything, very comparable right?

Offline eXpire

  • The Institute Leader
  • Community Event Manager
  • *****
  • لا اله الا انت سبحانك اني كنت من الظالمين
  • Registered: 01/10/2016
    YearsYears
  • Group: The_Institute
  • Ingame: SeXp!re
  • Squad: #cB & #ES
Re: [PROPOSAL] Decreasing grenades/satchels price back to $2000
« Reply #10 on: 02 07, 2019, 03:26:54 pm »
It's not a P2W, it's a rp game.
It wasn't supposed to be a battle royal where you get your stuff during the battle.
You had and I see that you have to work to afford your gameplay.

Hey, I know my statement itself of the DL3 doesn't make any sense except one and is the one I wanted to clear...
Which is, not in all updates, players' choice is the right one. As they would every time go for an easier gameplay, and that's good, but not when it may ruin it for others.

If all LV players agree on this, then go ahead. You get the gameplay you enjoy, but all I wanted is to show a statement from another perspective.



We strive hard for a better future - The Institute
كلمتان خفيفتان على اللسان، ثقيلتان في الميزان، حبيبتان إلى الرحمن: سبحان الله وبحمده، سبحان الله العظيم

Offline OhhKarim

  • Senior Community Member
  • ****
  • Players of the Gold
  • Registered: 16/05/2015
    YearsYearsYearsYears
  • Group: Team eXodus #1
  • Ingame: OhhKarim
  • Squad: NoAP4U
Re: [PROPOSAL] Decreasing grenades/satchels price back to $2000
« Reply #11 on: 02 07, 2019, 03:31:42 pm »
It's not a P2W, it's a rp game.
Where in the CIT server title do you see the word "roleplay" if I may ask? 'Cause this ain't a RP server at all. And it is P2W if changes are being made in favour of rich players only, that's literally what P2W means.

https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=pay-to-win

It wasn't supposed to be a battle royal where you get your stuff during the battle.
In battle royale you don't take the enemy's money, you take their stuff such as weapons, armor, etc. This doesn't happen in turfing, you just earn money so that we don't have to play boring jobs. There's no correlation at all being made with this reply.

Which is, not in all updates, players' choice is the right one. As they would every time go for an easier gameplay, and that's good, but not when it may ruin it for others.
I don't see how this will ruin the gameplay, it just makes it fairer to other players who are not as rich. At least prove your claims if you're going to make such assumptions. Fairness = abuse?

If all LV players agree on this, then go ahead. You get the gameplay you enjoy
Yeah.

LV community support:





Offline OhhKarim

  • Senior Community Member
  • ****
  • Players of the Gold
  • Registered: 16/05/2015
    YearsYearsYearsYears
  • Group: Team eXodus #1
  • Ingame: OhhKarim
  • Squad: NoAP4U
Re: [VOTE] Decreasing grenades/satchels price back to $2000
« Reply #12 on: 03 07, 2019, 12:55:35 am »
Changed into [VOTE]. Voting process may start.

Show content
Full explanation of the suggestion:
I'm suggesting to decrease the price of grenades/satchels back to $2000, they are currently $3000 per unit. The current $3000 per unit was suggested by Quartz in an 'effort' to decrease grenade spam in LV. We've now been playing with this update for over a year and clearly there has been no significant decrease in grenade spam. If anything, it has now only been harder for poorer players to fight, so it basically became more P2W which is something we should definitely avoid heading towards.

Tuesday 10th April 2018
- Increased price of grenades and satchels from $2000 to $3000. (Arran + Quartz)

The main thing we usually hear is 'then stop wasting money on grenades' not understanding that grenades spam have been happening since 2013 even before the instant switching binds and even still after the instant switching binds got removed recently, so this will not stop as this has become a casualty and completely fits with the standard of LV which is 'quality over quantity' where numbers shouldn't dictate who wins, rather skills. In case someone says grenades don't require skills, yeah you're wrong, I've seen plenty of LS'ers spamming grenades in LV Hospital and gaining zero kills. I've a video on my youtube channel as well in case necessary to prove and could upload more videos.

Brief explanation of the suggestion (in case TL;DR):
- Decrease the price of grenades/satchels back to $2000

The reasons as to why it should be decreased:
- There is an earnlimit of 360k per hour and the maximum we can earn now from turfs is 40k per 3 minutes, compared to the 80k per 3 minutes in the past. Therefore it's harder to earn money, thus having these explosives at $3000 is too expensive.
- The price was set to $3000 to prevent grenades spam, but that didn't happen, so that should already be enough to be reverted as it clearly didn't do as what was being suggested. LV players just love to use explosives, after all it's a chaotic city.
- By making an essential weapon so expensive, it's promoting a P2W playstyle which is not what we should be heading towards. Now rich players have a bigger advantage, it shouldn't be like that.
- The $3000 was suggested at the time when there was no explosive resistance, now, there is a /pr for 50% explosive resistance. Causing the explosives to do 30 damage after all resistances are being used. A weapon that does such low damage shouldn't be this expensive, ever. Honestly, the explosive resistance has done more efforts towards 'fixing grenades spam' than the $3000 price tag itself, considering it's not even worth it to buy explosives when having such high explosive resistance.

LV community support:



« Last Edit: 03 07, 2019, 02:31:39 pm by OhhKarim »

Offline BlackyMan

  • 5th Founder
  • Honorable
  • *****
  • A goal is a dream with a deadline.
  • Registered: 02/02/2013
    YearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYears
  • Group: 5thStreetSaints
  • Ingame: 5th|BlackyMan
  • Squad: ✖
Re: [VOTE] Decreasing grenades/satchels price back to $2000
« Reply #13 on: 03 07, 2019, 01:00:08 am »
No.  :cros:
Explosives are already being spammed enough, no need to decrease the price to have even more chaos. Any future explanation related to this subject is simply pointless as that's a rhetorical question.
Quote
                                                           Force yourself, and you will be suprised what you can do.
Ex. nR7Gaming Leader | Now. Proud to be 5thStreetSaints Founder

Offline Dust

  • Junior Community Member
  • **
  • Registered: 19/01/2015
    YearsYearsYearsYears
  • Group: Banlieue13
Re: [VOTE] Decreasing grenades/satchels price back to $2000
« Reply #14 on: 03 07, 2019, 01:07:18 am »
 :tick: Yes.
Normally,its price is good but turfs's payment is not enough to receive and there is hourly earning limit.