Author Topic: Are we alone in the universe?  (Read 1176 times)

Offline zombiee

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Re: Are we alone in the universe?
« Reply #30 on: 09 08, 2019, 03:48:29 pm »
Definitely not alone in the universe. Life isn't complicated, there's only a few elements needed for life on a planet. Even though aliens haven't been found, it is incredibly likely that there's small organisms in space. Which in a billions of years will evolve and maybe have something more human like.

Offline isi3456789

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Re: Are we alone in the universe?
« Reply #31 on: 09 08, 2019, 04:28:37 pm »
There's a possibility, just because there's a possibility doesn't mean it's certain. You just want to believe its real, without any evidence.
When taking the possibility of life being possible on earth-like planets and comparing it to the infinity of the universe, I highly doubt that humans are the only exception in thouse 30 sextillion+ planets.

Wild animals are far more dangerous than humans.
Let me introduce you to Communism, Facism and the resulting World Wars: Several Hundred Million people suffered and died from thouse human ideas and events.
But yeah wild animals, most of them getting extinct anyways, are the big problem here.

Try to interact with animals such as tigers, wolfs, gorillas, you'll end up dying. But I don't see you talking about that.  :thonk:
Oh yes, comparing animals that only follow their wild instincts and that can only be met in a cage in a zoo or in the wilderness, to literal aliens of an advanced civilization that are able to travel light years from various suns.
Who is the bigger threat here?

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Offline OhhKarim

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Re: Are we alone in the universe?
« Reply #32 on: 09 08, 2019, 04:47:39 pm »
When taking the possibility of life being possible on earth-like planets and comparing it to the infinity of the universe, I highly doubt that humans are the only exception in thouse 30 sextillion+ planets.
30 sextillion planets and still no sight of aliens, what a bummer

Let me introduce you to Communism, Facism and the resulting World Wars: Several Hundred Million people suffered and died from thouse human ideas and events.
But yeah wild animals, most of them getting extinct anyways, are the big problem here.
Yeah wild animals who rape without consequences day to day, who kill each other to act alpha and get the females, the birds who throw their weak babies off the nest, rather than helping them like humans do to their weak babies. Cannibalistic behaviour from wild animals, there are even animals that eat their own babies. Dolphins gang rape during mating season and use fish as "sex toys" - yeah, google it if you don't believe it. Wolfs and similar animals kill their prey alive, letting them suffer alive. But oh, humans are bad because of a percentage of bad people!

Oh yes, comparing animals that only follow their wild instincts and that can only be met in a cage in a zoo or in the wilderness
And humans don't have instincts? Testosterone primes several instincts such as dominance (wikipedia).

to literal aliens of an advanced civilization that are able to travel light years from various suns.
Got any evidence that they can do that? You don't even have evidence that they exist, let alone evidence that they are advanced and have technology to do said stuff.  :fp:

Who is the bigger threat here?
Wild animals because I can walk every day near *most* humans without something happening, can't say the same about wild animals, can you?  :thonk:

Offline Arran

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Re: Are we alone in the universe?
« Reply #33 on: 09 08, 2019, 05:06:52 pm »
Wild animals are far more dangerous than humans.

Wild animals don't have nuclear weapons that can obliterate the entire planet multiple times over. :fp:

Offline Nikos

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Re: Are we alone in the universe?
« Reply #34 on: 09 08, 2019, 05:30:17 pm »
Quote
30 sextillion planets and still no sight of aliens, what a bummer
We have barely explored our solar system. We do know the size of the observable universe only. And once more, it's impossible to travel to other solar systems or galaxies because of the insane distances. It would take us millions and billions of years to send technology to other galaxies, so yeah... No sight till now...
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Offline OhhKarim

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Re: Are we alone in the universe?
« Reply #35 on: 09 08, 2019, 05:35:27 pm »
Wild animals don't have nuclear weapons that can obliterate the entire planet multiple times over. :fp:
If animals had them and were able to use them, we'd be doomed. Thankfully they can't. They are physically and mentally restricted to such actions.

Offline Dimit

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Re: Are we alone in the universe?
« Reply #36 on: 09 08, 2019, 05:38:27 pm »
Nobody has that kinda of evidence.
So then why should I believe in your theories?

He explained it in the part you removed from the quote

Nobody has that kinda of evidence.

What I can tell you is the following tho: The Universe is soooooo big and full of many
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one hundred billion
galaxies containing many
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three hundred billion
suns, each one containing at the bare minimum one planet where intelligent life could develop:
That means there are around
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30 Sextillion, a 3 followed by 22 zero's
planets in the observable universe at the MINIMUM.

And you think that the humans are special?
The chance that there MIGHT be aliens is higher than to assume no there are no aliens.
exactly the reason why we can't visit them/other stars.

You don't need evidence for everything. Use your brain and/or get some basic research.


You multiply the chance of any forms of living organisms being created a life-supporting planet with the total amount of planets that have the required conditions to support life and subtract the planets on which life has already existed and died already, and you have the estimated amount of planets with life in the universe
Since the amount of planets in our universe is so high that you can compare it to adding the infinity symbol ∞ to an equation, anything with a propability higher than 0 will by simple laws of maths occur anywhere on one or more of these planets. It means theres most likely even a planet somewhere in the universe where some rocks on the ground are formed in a way that it says "OhhKarim" (assuming that the formation of rocks in such a way by chance has a propability higher than 0).

Ofcourse this might be a tough one for simple minds who cant imagine numbers larger than 1 million and arent even familiar with the law of large numbers but in the end it wont change the fact that this is a matter of maths and not belief, its not a theory but a calculation and proven to be valid by simple maths.
The reason why you dont consider it as fact is because you didnt get to see an actual living organism with your own eyes, which is the same argument people use to claim that the moon landing wasnt real, because just like we cant send people randomly to the moon to show them the american flag, we cant send people into random other star system now to search for actual living organisms for them.
But "proof" isnt limited to physically showing you something, in this case, you can show by maths that something exists.
« Last Edit: 09 08, 2019, 06:09:22 pm by Dimit »
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Offline Genius

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Re: Are we alone in the universe?
« Reply #37 on: 09 08, 2019, 06:43:20 pm »
Yes we're alone, people just don't want to accept this so they try to tell themselves that there are aliens out there. There has been no evidence of alien life, provide me actual evidence and then I'll believe it.
Here is what you said.
How can you be so sure that we are alone in the universe? Do you have proof that we are alone? Give me that proof. As Nikos said we barely know anything about our solar system not to talk about other galaxies. There is a much bigger chance for there to be aliens then not. We are not even sure if we landed on the moon.
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Offline isi3456789

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Re: Are we alone in the universe?
« Reply #38 on: 09 08, 2019, 07:05:52 pm »
And once more, it's impossible to travel to other solar systems
Not impossible but I doubt we will ever find a valid reason to do so. If we will have the technology to travel to the next star we should also be able to control climate change on our planet. And considering we have world peace and fix all problems humanity currently has, we would be able to live another 5 billion years on this planet. Only than
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when the sun expands into a Red Giant and fucking swallows the whole earth
we should consider searching for a new solar system.

Voyager 1 is currently traveling at 62.140 km/h through space. Would take 75.000 years to reach Alpha Centauri, the next star, 4 LY away.
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Trajectory of Voyager 1 in the nightsky from earth from 1977-2030
« Last Edit: 09 08, 2019, 07:09:43 pm by isi3456789 »
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Offline OhhKarim

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Re: Are we alone in the universe?
« Reply #39 on: 09 08, 2019, 10:37:40 pm »
Theory; a concept that is not yet verified
Since there is no evidence of aliens, it is indeed just a theory.

Do you have proof that we are alone? Give me that proof.
You are the one supposed to show evidence. If I say "unicorns exist" and you say "no they don't" and I say "then show me proof that they don't exist" then that doesn't mean unicorns exist. You have the burden of proof when you're talking about aliens, not me.

You multiply the chance of any forms of living organisms being created a life-supporting planet with the total amount of planets that have the required conditions to support life and subtract the planets on which life has already existed and died already, and you have the estimated amount of planets with life in the universe
Since the amount of planets in our universe is so high that you can compare it to adding the infinity symbol ∞ to an equation, anything with a propability higher than 0 will by simple laws of maths occur anywhere on one or more of these planets. It means theres most likely even a planet somewhere in the universe where some rocks on the ground are formed in a way that it says "OhhKarim" (assuming that the formation of rocks in such a way by chance has a propability higher than 0).

Ofcourse this might be a tough one for simple minds who cant imagine numbers larger than 1 million and arent even familiar with the law of large numbers but in the end it wont change the fact that this is a matter of maths and not belief, its not a theory but a calculation and proven to be valid by simple maths.
The reason why you dont consider it as fact is because you didnt get to see an actual living organism with your own eyes, which is the same argument people use to claim that the moon landing wasnt real, because just like we cant send people randomly to the moon to show them the american flag, we cant send people into random other star system now to search for actual living organisms for them.
But "proof" isnt limited to physically showing you something, in this case, you can show by maths that something exists.

Since you involved the Drake equation, lets talk about the Fermi Paradox.

Quote
The Fermi paradox is named after Italian-American physicist Enrico Fermi and refers to the apparent contradiction between the lack of evidence for and various high probability estimates[1] of the existence of extraterrestrial civilizations elsewhere in the Milky Way galaxy.[2]

Specifically about the Drake equation part, first.

Quote
The Drake equation has been used by both optimists and pessimists, with wildly differing results. The first scientific meeting on the search for extraterrestrial intelligence (SETI), which had 10 attendees including Frank Drake and Carl Sagan, speculated that the number of civilizations was roughly numerically equal to the lifetime[clarify] in years, and there were probably between 1,000 and 100,000,000 civilizations in the Milky Way galaxy.[36] Conversely, Frank Tipler and John D. Barrow used pessimistic numbers and speculated that the average number of civilizations in a galaxy is much less than one.[37] Almost all arguments involving the Drake equation suffer from the overconfidence effect, a common error of probabilistic reasoning about low-probability events, by guessing specific numbers for likelihoods of events whose mechanism is not yet understood, such as the likelihood of abiogenesis on an Earth-like planet, with current likelihood estimates varying over many hundreds of orders of magnitude. An analysis that takes into account some of the uncertainty associated with this lack of understanding has been carried out by Anders Sandberg, Eric Drexler and Toby Ord,[38] and suggests that, with very high probability, either intelligent civilizations are plentiful in our galaxy or humanity is alone in the observable universe, with the lack of observation of intelligent civilizations pointing towards the latter option.

The requirements might be higher than expected, and when some people used the equation, the answer turned out to be less than one. Doesn't seem very likely to me.

Quote
The second aspect of the Fermi paradox is the argument of probability: given intelligent life's ability to overcome scarcity, and its tendency to colonize new habitats, it seems possible that at least some civilizations would be technologically advanced, seek out new resources in space, and colonize their own star system and, subsequently, surrounding star systems. Since there is no significant evidence on Earth, or elsewhere in the known universe, of other intelligent life after 13.8 billion years of the universe's history, there is a conflict requiring a resolution.

If interstellar travel is possible, even the "slow" kind nearly within the reach of Earth technology, then it would only take from 5 million to 50 million years to colonize the galaxy.[17] This is relatively brief on a geological scale, let alone a cosmological one. Since there are many stars older than the Sun, and since intelligent life might have evolved earlier elsewhere, the question then becomes why the galaxy has not been colonized already. Even if colonization is impractical or undesirable to all alien civilizations, large-scale exploration of the galaxy could be possible by probes. These might leave detectable artifacts in the Solar System, such as old probes or evidence of mining activity, but none of these have been observed.

So where are they?

If Aliens existed, there would've been a sign of them as some would've been more advanced and able to visit us considering our sun is relatively young in the lifespan of the universe. There are far older planets similar to our Earth, which would mean that according to your logic, they'd have civilizations far more advanced than our own and thus have been able to visit us. And again, there would be have been detectable artifacts left behind in the Solar System. There is no answer to the Fermi Paradox, everyone has their own "(re)solution" when in reality, they are just "possible explanations" which are just theories created to fit the narrative they want to be true.

Also I suggest you guys to read the the Rare Earth hypothesis which explains that complex life such as the ones on Earth, are rather pretty rare.

Quote
Those who think that intelligent extraterrestrial life is (nearly) impossible argue that the conditions needed for the evolution of life—or at least the evolution of biological complexity—are rare or even unique to Earth. Under this assumption, called the rare Earth hypothesis, a rejection of the mediocrity principle, complex multicellular life is regarded as exceedingly unusual.[68]

The Rare Earth hypothesis argues that the evolution of biological complexity requires a host of fortuitous circumstances, such as a galactic habitable zone, a star and planet(s) having the requisite conditions, such as enough of a continuous habitable zone, the advantage of a giant guardian like Jupiter and a large moon, conditions needed to ensure the planet has a magnetosphere and plate tectonics, the chemistry of the lithosphere, atmosphere, and oceans, the role of "evolutionary pumps" such as massive glaciation and rare bolide impacts. And perhaps most importantly, advanced life needs whatever it was that led to the appearance of the eukaryotic cells, sexual reproduction and the Cambrian explosion.

In his book Wonderful Life (1989), Stephen Jay Gould suggested that if the "tape of life" were rewound to the time of the Cambrian explosion, and one or two tweaks made, human beings most probably never would have evolved.
« Last Edit: 09 08, 2019, 10:40:47 pm by OhhKarim »

Offline Angels

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Re: Are we alone in the universe?
« Reply #40 on: 09 08, 2019, 10:48:20 pm »
We can't explore the whole universe as people said it is going bigger and bigger. Every second when the universe is going bigger there is chance 1 civilisation to born.

Anyways I still think we are not alone in the universe, because we can't be that special.

Afaik there was something about NASA's YouTube streams that they turn it off and on, because UFO appeared. Well this maybe is cuz of the signal?

What about moon landing is it even real? There is photo on the moon where on the background something is lighting.

What about Area 51 do they even work with aliens? Now people are joking about storming it.


There are a lot of planets that looks like the earth.


What about aliens are other type of creatures not like humans I mean dust, materials and etc.

I really love talking about these things.


Offline Genius

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Re: Are we alone in the universe?
« Reply #41 on: 10 08, 2019, 05:40:16 am »
Yes we're alone
Well, I said to give me proofs because you sound like you are 100% sure there are no aliens. There is only belief... You can either believe that they do exist or don't. If you think they don't exist you gotta come with evidence and if you think they do exist you again gotta come with the evidence.
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Offline Dimit

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Re: Are we alone in the universe?
« Reply #42 on: 10 08, 2019, 06:18:08 am »
The requirements might be higher than expected, and when some people used the equation, the answer turned out to be less than one. Doesn't seem very likely to me.
Drakes equation (assuming his pessimistic values would be correct) only calculates the amount of civilizations with intelligent life and which are interested in interstellar communication. Also his result is based on one galaxy.

So I dont see why you would bring that up



So where are they?

If Aliens existed, there would've been a sign of them as some would've been more advanced and able to visit us considering our sun is relatively young in the lifespan of the universe. There are far older planets similar to our Earth, which would mean that according to your logic, they'd have civilizations far more advanced than our own and thus have been able to visit us. And again, there would be have been detectable artifacts left behind in the Solar System. There is no answer to the Fermi Paradox, everyone has their own "(re)solution" when in reality, they are just "possible explanations" which are just theories created to fit the narrative they want to be true.
Very simple, travelling between galaxies is basically impossible so only civilizations inside the milky way would be potential life forms earth could come into contact with. Now assuming that theres a handful of civilizations in the milky way that would actually be able to do interstellar travel, they have up to 400 billion possible plants to explore. Even if they would be able to travel at 10% of light speed, they would need more than 1 million years to get from one end of the milky way to the other.
In comparison, here is the distance the first radio waves created by humans 200 years ago have travelled in the universe with full light speed so far

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Offline Serpent

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Re: Are we alone in the universe?
« Reply #43 on: 10 08, 2019, 01:13:39 pm »
Very good explanation, Dimit.

Even if they traveled at 50% of speed of light, it would take many years. And who would undertake such a long journey? I imagine it gets boring in a spaceship, unless they turned it into a CIT-like virtual reality.

Anyway

I assume they would also need to have long lifespans, or if that was not the case biologically, they should have been able to radically expand their lifespans.

Alternatively,  perhaps they've sent robots to explore the galaxy. So if we ever get in touch with them, maybe we will first meet with extraterrestrial robots rather extraterrestrials themselves lol
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Offline Dimit

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Re: Are we alone in the universe?
« Reply #44 on: 10 08, 2019, 01:29:59 pm »
Very good explanation, Dimit.

Even if they traveled at 50% of speed of light, it would take many years. And who would undertake such a long journey? I imagine it gets boring in a spaceship, unless they turned it into a CIT-like virtual reality.

Anyway

I assume they would also need to have long lifespans, or if that was not the case biologically, they should have been able to radically expand their lifespans.

Alternatively,  perhaps they've sent robots to explore the galaxy. So if we ever get in touch with them, maybe we will first meet with extraterrestrial robots rather extraterrestrials themselves lol
well they would build generation ships with artificial gravity etc where multiple generations would live until reaching their destination
but the fastest realistic speed to travel though space would be around 10-20% of the speed of light, the biggest limitations are that every single particle or piece of dust already destroys the walls of your spacecraft at such speeds, and also that your mass starts to turn into energy at increasing speeds, also you cant really manouver an object at that speed without massive amounts of energy, you will need as much energy to slow it down as you needed to speed it up


however, theres a project called "breakthrough starshot", where they want to accelerate a thin mirror-like shield with a tiny 1 gram chip attatched to it to 20% of the speed of light using loads of large lasers on earth, so that it can travel to the closest star to our solar system within a few decades, and send back data (which will take another few years to travel back to earth)
There's no god, no saviour, no paradise and no life beyond. Our existence is limited. Nothing will save us from death.  Use your time on earth wisely.
Be kind to others, share your wealth - donate to the poor, protect the environment, use your opportunity every day to make earth a better place.
Currently 795 million humans have insufficent access to food.
You can start helping today