Author Topic: Should abortions be illegal?  (Read 810 times)

Offline Western

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Should abortions be illegal?
« on: 08 08, 2019, 06:59:56 pm »
Hi, first of all this is not related to the other topic “Should parents stop aborting their children” as this is meant to be asked if it should be illegal. I think it should be illegal personally, it is already banned in some states already which shows the supposed of people thinking it should be illegal. What do you think?

Offline OhhKarim

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Re: Should abortions be illegal?
« Reply #1 on: 08 08, 2019, 07:28:28 pm »
Yes because it is killing innocent human life, and killing innocent humans should not be allowed for whatever reason. We should only kill murderers/pedo's/rapists.

Offline Serpent

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Re: Should abortions be illegal?
« Reply #2 on: 09 08, 2019, 05:53:58 am »
Difficult question.

It shouldn't be illegal in cases where the life of the mother is endangered. I think most of us can agree on that one.

As for other types of abortion, I think it depends on the development stage. An embryo has a low level of consciousness and is not a baby yet. Its consciousness is certainly lower than that of a cow or a chicken.

Even sperm has potential to develop into a full-grown human given the right circumstances. But that doesn't mean males become mass murderers every time they ejaculate.

However, I do think all types of abortion should be avoided given the wealth of contraceptive options.
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Offline Sultan

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Re: Should abortions be illegal?
« Reply #3 on: 09 08, 2019, 06:56:04 am »
Abortion is murder.
I highly agree with this, explained what I wanted to say in 3 words, It should be illegal. Why are you killing small kids? Why don't you kill rapists? Like Karim said, there are a lot of abortion happening, I think the person deserve's a death penalty for it, except the women is in danger.
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Offline zombiee

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Re: Should abortions be illegal?
« Reply #4 on: 09 08, 2019, 07:09:33 am »
Everyone saying "it should be illegal" is just braindead.

First of all imagine a 13 years old girl that got raped and now pregnant in a new born

What would she do ?

Like what you mean "kill the rapists", you acting like you know whos a rapist and whos not...

Abortions should be legal by any way. It aint the women's fault to be responsible of a new born and she isnt ready or doesnt know how to take care of him/her. what you mean???????

Offline Serpent

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Re: Should abortions be illegal?
« Reply #5 on: 09 08, 2019, 07:35:55 am »
Everyone saying "it should be illegal" is just braindead.

First of all imagine a 13 years old girl that got raped and now pregnant in a new born

What would she do ?

Like what you mean "kill the rapists", you acting like you know whos a rapist and whos not...

Abortions should be legal by any way. It aint the women's fault to be responsible of a new born and she isnt ready or doesnt know how to take care of him/her. what you mean???????

Makes sense to give up the baby for adoption if we are talking about a late-stage pregnancy. If we are talking about an early-stage pregnancy (up to 7-8 weeks), then it gets more complicated.
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Offline SugarVanilla

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Re: Should abortions be illegal?
« Reply #6 on: 09 08, 2019, 11:11:15 am »
This is morally wrong, because abortion is terminating human's being.
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Offline SugarVanilla

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Re: Should abortions be illegal?
« Reply #7 on: 09 08, 2019, 11:16:24 am »
Everyone saying "it should be illegal" is just braindead.

First of all imagine a 13 years old girl that got raped and now pregnant in a new born

What would she do ?

Like what you mean "kill the rapists", you acting like you know whos a rapist and whos not...

Abortions should be legal by any way. It aint the women's fault to be responsible of a new born and she isnt ready or doesnt know how to take care of him/her. what you mean???????

Apparently, there is a way. For example, if she was raped for 1-2 days; there is still a chance to make her not get pregnant. There is a pill to help and temporarily stops the release of an egg from the ovary. It prevent fertilization completely. Only if she got released the day she got raped. I could be wrong since you were talking about 13 years old.
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Re: Should abortions be illegal?
« Reply #8 on: 09 08, 2019, 12:10:08 pm »
There is already an active topic about that.
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Offline OhhKarim

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Re: Should abortions be illegal?
« Reply #9 on: 09 08, 2019, 03:04:04 pm »
As for other types of abortion, I think it depends on the development stage. An embryo has a low level of consciousness and is not a baby yet. Its consciousness is certainly lower than that of a cow or a chicken.
So human value is dependent on consciousness? So we should be allowed to kill people in comas too, they're not conscious right?

Even sperm has potential to develop into a full-grown human given the right circumstances. But that doesn't mean males become mass murderers every time they ejaculate.
A sperm cannot grow into a human being on its own, and neither can an egg on its own. Fertilization must occur for development of human being to happen.

So they are not comparable, one is already fertilized which means it's growing into a human being, and the sperm & egg individually are potential human beings since they aren't fertilized yet without interaction.

Everyone saying "it should be illegal" is just braindead.

First of all imagine a 13 years old girl that got raped and now pregnant in a new born

What would she do ?

Like what you mean "kill the rapists", you acting like you know whos a rapist and whos not...

Abortions should be legal by any way. It aint the women's fault to be responsible of a new born and she isnt ready or doesnt know how to take care of him/her. what you mean???????

It's illogical to use the "rape" argument when rape/incest are less than 1% of all abortion cases (0.5% up to 1.5% depending on sources) so we're obviously talking about the majority of abortion cases.

This year only, more than 25,649,000 abortions took place. So lets use our brains here, we are talking about the majority of abortion cases which are done for cases where the mother's health is not in danger, the women/girl has not been raped, and no incest has been taken place. We are talking about the abortions which were purely done for convenience reasons. There should never be a reason to kill an innocent human being on purpose, for your own convenience.

And regarding the "you acting like you know whos a rapist and whos not" how else do rapists go to jail? Do you think there's no DNA evidence in this day and age?  :fp:

Abortions should be legal by any way. It aint the women's fault to be responsible of a new born and she isnt ready or doesnt know how to take care of him/her. what you mean???????

This is the dumbest statement I've ever heard regarding abortion. Yes it is their responsibility to take of the new born if she willingly had sexual intercourse. Sex causes pregnancies, pregnancies cause babies, wow what a shocker! So don't tell me it's anyone else's fault other than the two people having sex causing this human being to start growing inside of her. Why should the human being inside of her, have to be killed, simply due to the fact that she was irresponsible? Also there's something called adoption, put your kid up for adoption if you don't want him/her.
« Last Edit: 09 08, 2019, 03:15:36 pm by OhhKarim »

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Re: Should abortions be illegal?
« Reply #10 on: 09 08, 2019, 03:23:36 pm »
Sickness, rapes and fails of contraceptive methods are the basic reasons. No one likes abortions. But if we make it illegal then the childs that will be sent for adoptions will be countless and they won't be able to be supported. If my kid had down syndrome, I would obviously consider abortion. The life would be hard in such cruel world, where people don't respect childern with such syndromes.
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Offline OhhKarim

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Re: Should abortions be illegal?
« Reply #11 on: 09 08, 2019, 03:35:22 pm »
Sickness, rapes and fails of contraceptive methods are the basic reasons.
They are not "basic reasons" they are the minority of reasons regarding abortion.

https://www.hli.org/resources/why-women-abort/

Quote
0.69% of Abortions Done for the “Hard Cases”
Calculations based on statistics provided by medical journals and government surveys in the United States show the hard cases are much rarer than most people believe:

0.36% of abortions done to save the life or health of the mother (5,200 per year)
0.09% done in cases of rape or incest (1,300 abortions per year)
0.24% done for fetal birth defects (3,470 per year)
0.69% done for all the hard cases combined (9,970 per year)
99.31% of all abortions are therefore performed for social or economic reasons

Quote
Abortion Clinic Statistics
A survey of more than 120,000 aborting women performed by the states of Louisiana, Nebraska and Utah during the years 1996 to 2003 gives us what may be a more accurate estimate of the number of “hard case” abortions than Guttmacher’s numbers, because these are the numbers that abortion clinics must officially report in these states:

 

Abortion Clinics in Three States, Self-Reports: Reasons Women Get Abortions

Total Number of Abortions: 122,083
Rape and Incest: 273 ( 0.22%)
Mother’s Life or Physical Health 513 ( 0.42%)
Birth Defects 250 ( 0.20%)
Total Hard Cases 1,036 ( 0.84%)
All Other Reasons: 121,047 (99.16%)
Louisiana State Center for Health Statistics, Louisiana Vital Statistics Report annual reports, 1996-2000 and 1997-2001; Nebraska Health and Human Services System, “Nebraska 2001 Statistical Report of Abortions,” March 2002; Utah Department of Health. Utah’s Vital Statistics: Abortions, annual reports, 1996-2003.
 

So according to these self-reporting abortion clinics, only 0.84% of abortions happen in the hard cases.

Quote from: Reasons Women Get Abortions Internationally
The reasons women get abortions all over the world are largely the same. In 1998, the Guttmacher Institute published the results of studies showing that lifestyle reasons also predominate among aborting women in other nations. Its summary of surveys performed in 26 countries outside the United States showed that primary reasons for aborting given by the 62,658 women interviewed.

Since rape and incest are included under “other reasons,” a maximum of 5.8% of all abortions performed in other countries are done for the hard cases, and a minimum of 94.2% are performed to preserve the mother’s lifestyle or to please those close to her.

But if we make it illegal then the childs that will be sent for adoptions will be countless and they won't be able to be supported.
Source that they won't be able to be supported? There are countless of organizations, foster cares, adoption centers helping.

If my kid had down syndrome, I would obviously consider abortion. The life would be hard in such cruel world, where people don't respect childern with such syndromes.
Worst excuse ever, so we might as well kill all black people because there are racists, we might as well kill all religious people because there are people who hate religions, we might as well kill all people with birth defects because they will be made fun of. This logic makes no sense.

And since you specifically mentioned down syndrome;




Offline Serpent

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Re: Should abortions be illegal?
« Reply #12 on: 09 08, 2019, 06:58:10 pm »
So human value is dependent on consciousness? So we should be allowed to kill people in comas too, they're not conscious right?
A sperm cannot grow into a human being on its own, and neither can an egg on its own. Fertilization must occur for development of human being to happen.

The guy in the coma has acted normally in the past and has had human experience. Further, the guy in the coma is physiologically a developed human being.

In contrast, an embryo is a potential human. It is not a human yet. It doesn't look like a human and it doesn't have human experience. Nor does it have a history of doing so.

Quote

So they are not comparable, one is already fertilized which means it's growing into a human being, and the sperm & egg individually are potential human beings since they aren't fertilized yet without interaction.


Around 50% of fertilization cases end up in miscarriage.  Fertilization doesn't necessarily lead to the development of a baby. It leads to the development of a baby only if the right circumstances take place.

Likewise, sperm may lead to the development of a baby if the right circumstances take place. That doesn't mean males and females are mass murders if they try to prevent those circumstances.
« Last Edit: 09 08, 2019, 07:06:19 pm by Serpent »
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Offline zombiee

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Re: Should abortions be illegal?
« Reply #13 on: 09 08, 2019, 08:56:48 pm »
This is the dumbest statement I've ever heard regarding abortion. Yes it is their responsibility to take of the new born if she willingly had sexual intercourse. Sex causes pregnancies, pregnancies cause babies, wow what a shocker! So don't tell me it's anyone else's fault other than the two people having sex causing this human being to start growing inside of her. Why should the human being inside of her, have to be killed, simply due to the fact that she was irresponsible? Also there's something called adoption, put your kid up for adoption if you don't want him/her.

I only talking about raping.
Talking about sex with a partner is just another thing.

Offline OhhKarim

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Re: Should abortions be illegal?
« Reply #14 on: 09 08, 2019, 09:55:02 pm »
The guy in the coma has acted normally in the past and has had human experience. Further, the guy in the coma is physiologically a developed human being.
Each time you seek for more reasons to justify yourself.

"Has had human experience"
"Is physiologically a developed human being"

Tf are you saying, those things don't determine whether you're a human being or not. What does, is, fertilization. If a human sperm and egg meet, fertilization happens. Now lets see what wikipedia says about fertilization?

Quote
Fertilisation or fertilization, also known as generative fertilisation, insemination, pollination, fecundation, syngamy and impregnation, is the fusion of gametes to initiate the development of a new individual organism or offspring.

In contrast, an embryo is a potential human. It is not a human yet. It doesn't look like a human and it doesn't have human experience. Nor does it have a history of doing so.
Science doesn't agree with you.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Development_of_the_human_body

Quote
Human development is the process of growth to maturity. The process begins with fertilization, where an egg released from the ovary of a female is penetrated by a sperm cell from a male. The resulting zygote develops through mitosis and cell differentiation, and the resulting embryo then implants in the uterus, where the embryo continues development through a fetal stage until birth. Further growth and development continues after birth, and includes both physical and psychological development, influenced by genetic, hormonal, environmental and other factors. This continues throughout life: through childhood and adolescence into adulthood.
"Experience" doesn't determine what you are. As soon as fertilization happened, you are a human being who's starting to grow.

Likewise, sperm may lead to the development of a baby if the right circumstances take place. That doesn't mean males and females are mass murders if they try to prevent those circumstances.
What kind of nonsense are you saying.  :fp:

A sperm is never going to lead to the development of a baby on its own without interaction of an egg, and neither will an egg lead to the development of a baby on its without interaction of sperm. So individually, they will never lead to the development of a baby, so masturbating has nothing to do with.

And as shown in the quote above, human development starts at fertilization, so you are wrong. Might want to start research embryology since you need a hell lot of it, Dr.Ward Krischer with a P.H.D in embryology says that all embryologists say human life starts at fertilization. Should I trust them, or "Serpent" who says otherwise?

And miscarriages happen unwillingly, abortions aren't. The two cases are different.

Now for the last time, let me explain to you; Human eggs (ovum) are not humans, but once fertilization has occurred and sperm has penetrated the egg, a new human life has begun.

I only talking about raping.
Talking about sex with a partner is just another thing.
And I showed you statistics that rape is less than 1% of all abortion cases, so why should it be allowed in the other 99% of the cases? It shouldn't.
« Last Edit: 09 08, 2019, 09:56:45 pm by OhhKarim »