Author Topic: Abortion and your opinion about it  (Read 5559 times)

Offline OhhKarim

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Re: Abortion and your opinion about it
« Reply #30 on: 09 10, 2020, 04:32:46 pm »
I do believe humans are created superior but that does not mean animals deserve less respect.

The difference between a man and women is not equal to the difference between animals and humans. And I still treat animals with respect, just because I am a meat eater doesn't mean I hate animals. I have had many pets, fish, cats, a bunny, freed mice and birds that my cat would put in her mouth, even took a baby bird as pet who fell in my garden but later decided to give it to someone who could give it the help it really needed. If I didn't care/respect animals I wouldn't have given a shit about those animals.



Did you just say that MUSLIMS are angry that saudi arabia actually enforces the rules of ISLAM by performing death penalty, chopping off hands, treating women as 3rd class slaves, killing of homosexuals etc. ?

Chopping off the hands of thieves is the correct punishment to ensure they won't do it again. Maybe don't steal? Deal with the consequences. Women aren't treated as slaves in my country Egypt, so yes many Muslims are against the way Saudi Arabia treats women there. The death penalty is also the correct punishment for murderers, rapists, etc. Because I strongly believe in "An eye for an eye" and it's also allowed by my religion as it's called "Qisas" I do not support keeping those nasty people alive, they don't deserve it after those crimes, in fact people who defend them should be jailed too. Now onto homosexuals, they only get sent to prison in Egypt, it's not the death penalty. So once again stop taking the most extreme country, Saudi Arabia, as a focal point.

Please, if you do not know what you are talking about or have nothing to add that doesnt have to be objectively corrected by dozens of people, then please stop posting here and inform yourself on the subject first, because half of the space below this topic is being wasted with nothing but teaching you basic content of the quran (which you dont seem to be familiar with) rather than debating the actual subject, which menas the whole conversation here is going off topic.

Funny how an atheist claims to know more about my religion than myself, especially since you do not even understand the Arabic language which results in many false interpretations and misconstrued statements.

The islam was invented in the midages and will forever be idelogically stuck in the midages due to the way it is pre-defined as infallible and not-to-be-questioned word of god, thus it never experienced enlightenment like christianity and most likely never will. It will forever be a hate ideology against women, homosexuals, people of other beliefs and other groups of people and thats why almost all countries (western democratic ones but also china, japan etc) are trying to keep this ideology out of their countries. So the only way saudi arabia, pakistan etc can escape from their midages status is to become a secularized country and scrap religion as a political system. Middle-Eastern countries are already doing that and lightyears ahead of SA/PK and continuously progressing(except for turkey)

The reason Christianity has many versions is because people who didn't agree with the teachings of it decided to remove certain stuff, hence why Islam is the true religion because it has only 1 book, 1 version, God's words didn't change.



And no thanks we do not want to be secular, I don't want my country to end up like western shitholes where there are literally people who look like this:



And where people start to accept pedophilia, just like you, an adult, thinks it's normal for adults to have sex with 14 year olds. This is how the west destructs and hypersexualizes people [&children].



Do you ever wonder why there are so many religions out there but the only religion people work so hard to prove wrong and to oppose is Islam? There are a lot of other religions which may seem wrong, and illogical too but from what I see, Islam receives the most opposition.

The more you want to prove it wrong, the more right it is, isn't it? You watch Islamic videos even though you're not a muslim - and then you put comments to prove Islam wrong. What's your point??

You're not a muslim, but you read Quran, trying to prove Islam wrong. What's your point?
You comment on other people's comments, trying to prove their wrong. What's your point?

Why do you have to work so hard to prove Islam wrong? You can just walk away and be like, "OK whatever you know I'm just going to go on with my life. I can just leave muslims as they are, just like how I don't try to prove other buddhists or christians wrong." But you didn't do that, do you? You didn't leave muslims as they are.  You go on every Islamic videos on YouTube and work hard to prove the videos wrong. You go on each comments, and work hard to prove people wrong. What's your point?

Why can't you leave Islam as it is?
Why can't you leave muslims as they are?
Why can't you leave us alone?
Why do you have to work so hard to PROVE ISLAM WRONG?

Because, the truth is, the problem lies in YOURSELF.
There is that little voice inside your head, whispering to you, "Islam sounds like a true religion..." but you hated that voice! You clenched your fists, gritted your teeth, and denied it! You watched Islamic videos and you were close to be convinced, but you shake your head, clearing the images away. You read Islamic comments, and you were close to be convinced, but you bit your lip and yelled, "No!".

The problem lies in yourself. YOU WANT TO PROVE ISLAM WRONG BECAUSE YOU DON'T WANT TO BE CONVINCED THAT ISLAM /IS/ THE TRUE RELIGION. Your ego, man. Your ego..

Offline PetroSailor

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Re: Abortion and your opinion about it
« Reply #31 on: 09 10, 2020, 05:05:07 pm »
Don’t have sex with a man unless you’re prepared to possibly be impregnated by him. If you do, accept the consequences.

Where’s the debate in this?

Offline Java

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Re: Abortion and your opinion about it
« Reply #32 on: 09 10, 2020, 05:47:57 pm »
Intentional abortion without serious reasons like medical reasons is what I would describe as "baby killers" even though this is not the best word I'd describe them as. Religiously speaking, a baby is a gift from God where the woman doesn't have the right to do anything harmful to. Yes, it is her body but that doesn't exclude the fact that the fetus is an innocent living being. I saw some people here saying abortion is morally permitted while they do highly respect animals which clearly proves how frustrating what human beings turned to.

The fetus is a living soul after approximately 120 days of pregnancy according to my religion.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_and_abortion

And it's best to ask a sheikh/imaam/scholar for religious questions rather than a normal citizen who might not have the best religious understanding.

Totally right. People are just listening to others words as if they are religious experts without mentally thinking about it and as a result, they make improper judgments even though the author's statements are completely incorrect. This is exactly what under-estimates religions.

I do believe humans are created superior but that does not mean animals deserve less respect.

https://www.ecomena.org/islam-animal/

Quote
All living beings %u2013 humans, birds, animals, insects etc %u2013 are worthy of consideration and respect. Islam has always viewed animals as a special part of God%u2019s creation. Mankind is responsible for whatever it has at its disposal, including animals whose rights must be respected. The Holy Qur%u2019an, the Hadith, and the history of Islamic civilization offer many examples of kindness, mercy, and compassion for animals. According to Islamic principles, animals have their own position in the creation hierarchy and humans are responsible for their well-being and food.

Islam strongly asks Muslims to treat animals with compassion and not to abuse them. The Holy Qur%u2019an states that all creation praises God, even if this praise is not expressed in human language. Prophet Muhammad (Peace Be Upon Him) often chastised his Companions who mistreated animals, and spoke to them about the need for mercy and kindness.

Regarding woman's rights, if you read enough about history and how old cultures used to commit female infanticide, you'll see my religion is the first to prohibit that brutal behaviour and is the first to bring woman's rights back. In addition to that, Saudi Arabia is one culture of hundreds of Islamic cultures. Each government is free to make rules based on the nation, the nation can decide if they are happy with that or not.

http://www.oxfordislamicstudies.com/article/opr/t125/e2510
https://www.dar-alifta.org/Foreign/ViewArticle.aspx?ID=142&CategoryID=3

It's just sad how people state nonsense and inaccurate arguments about my religion while most of the arguments are incorrect. If I saw someone from UK committed a murder, do I say the whole UK nation were taught to be murderers?
« Last Edit: 09 10, 2020, 05:54:42 pm by Java »

Offline MacMan

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Re: Abortion and your opinion about it
« Reply #33 on: 10 10, 2020, 02:49:30 pm »
I do believe humans are created superior but that does not mean animals deserve less respect.
The comparison between men and women shouldn't be same as humans and animals. Men and women are from the same species. They're both humans and they should have the same treat.
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Offline OhhKarim

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Re: Abortion and your opinion about it
« Reply #34 on: 10 10, 2020, 05:02:03 pm »
Don’t have sex with a man unless you’re prepared to possibly be impregnated by him. If you do, accept the consequences.

Where’s the debate in this?

That's the issue here, they do not take responsibility and just kill the human being who they've created while knowingly participating in an action that is known to produce offspring. Very selfish people.

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Re: Abortion and your opinion about it
« Reply #35 on: 22 10, 2020, 02:55:05 am »
Even though that's their body it's considered as bad. before you are going to enjoy anything like this you should think about what will happen in your future because your future is in your hand not on the others You're gonna be disappointed in your whole life because you didn't think what will happen after that night and you're going to do an abortion? that's wrong.
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Offline Oxygen

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Re: Abortion and your opinion about it
« Reply #36 on: 22 10, 2020, 08:05:22 pm »
That's the issue here, they do not take responsibility and just kill the human being who they've created while knowingly participating in an action that is known to produce offspring. Very selfish people.
Chopping off the hands of thieves is the correct punishment to ensure they won't do it again. Maybe don't steal? Deal with the consequences.
Yet you agree to take someone's life or chopping his/her hand for stealing... Crime rates are the government's fault because of their inefficiency to provide basic needs such as quality education for its citizens. It might be easy to say "don't steal" when you were lucky to be bornt with some parents who provided you with education and other tools for your future.

There are a lot of other religions which may seem wrong, and illogical too but from what I see, Islam receives the most opposition.
Maybe in Europe and possibly a small part of North America, but in Latin America, people completely ignore Muslims and other religions, we don't bother to argue with them. We simply don't care. The only religion that is quite hated by some people is the catholic church given the amount of corruption that has been made public in recent years.
As far as it goes when it comes to different national crises, people don't bother immigrating to western countries seeking economic stability and of course freedom to follow their beliefs, but sadly, when it comes to diversity, and gay people, they don't even hesitate to discriminate them just because of a book whose credibily lies only in beliefs.
Some western countries are Islamophobic, and the reason is pretty simple, if you immigrate to a country who is pretty much opening the doors to you, you can't blame them for discriminating you, if you're not willing to change your views nor accepting the freedom this countries usually offer. After all, the main idea is living as a society without affecting the dignity of the rest. You don't like gays at all? Fine. Probably they won't like you too. But that doesn't mean we have to fight each other nor discriminate or send one of us to jail.

Why do you have to work so hard to prove Islam wrong? You can just walk away and be like, "OK whatever you know I'm just going to go on with my life. I can just leave muslims as they are, just like how I don't try to prove other buddhists or christians wrong." But you didn't do that, do you? You didn't leave muslims as they are.  You go on every Islamic videos on YouTube and work hard to prove the videos wrong. You go on each comments, and work hard to prove people wrong. What's your point?

Why can't you leave Islam as it is?
Why can't you leave muslims as they are?
Why can't you leave us alone?
Why do you have to work so hard to PROVE ISLAM WRONG?
Because, the truth is, the problem lies in YOURSELF.
The problem lies in yourself. YOU WANT TO PROVE ISLAM WRONG BECAUSE YOU DON'T WANT TO BE CONVINCED THAT ISLAM /IS/ THE TRUE RELIGION. Your ego, man. Your ego..[/i]
Lol kind of hypocrite considering you are literally doing the same, and even worse things to gays. Being sent to prision just for that? Lol I don't think any west country send you to prision for being muslim. Don't play the victim when you are the oppressor.
......
And now, getting to the main issue of this topic, I would like to clarify that as far as I know, you go to jail for killing a citizen/resident in most countries, I don't think a fetus has an id nor any kind of thing that makes him an official living human. It's so hypocrite to care about the life of a weeks-old fetus, but not the possible risk this child might have to face in families who are dysfunctional or who live in absolute poorness.


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Offline OhhKarim

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Re: Abortion and your opinion about it
« Reply #37 on: 23 10, 2020, 03:59:49 am »
Yet you agree to take someone's life or chopping his/her hand for stealing...

LOL who said I believe a thief should be killed? The death penalty is mostly for murderers [including baby killers], pedophiles, and rapists. Leave your two hands on your own items if you want to walk home with both hands still in your pockets.

Crime rates are the government's fault because of their inefficiency to provide basic needs such as quality education for its citizens. It might be easy to say "don't steal" when you were lucky to be bornt with some parents who provided you with education and other tools for your future.

I never saw a more pathetic statement than this, trying to justify thieves' behaviour. Most robbers are not "poor people who steal some bread to feed their children", they are thugs who steal to get rich without working. Stealing a car then selling it to buy money for drugs, for example. There is no justification for it, the government has no involvement. Not to mention they are worthless people who have no problem putting people at gun point, scarring those people and making them lose trust in other people, or even using aggravated assault just to be able to rob. You are disgusting for trying to defend such behaviour. You defend robbers, you defend abortion and you defend homosexuality, haven't seen such a skewed person before.

if you immigrate to a country who is pretty much opening the doors to you, you can't blame them for discriminating you, if you're not willing to change your views nor accepting the freedom this countries usually offer. After all, the main idea is living as a society without affecting the dignity of the rest. You don't like gays at all? Fine. Probably they won't like you too. But that doesn't mean we have to fight each other nor discriminate or send one of us to jail.

You are making a lot of assumptions here, you seem to be personally attacked, probably because you are a gay yourself. Your logic is "If you want to come to a western country, you must accept our views" MEANWHILE you are telling non-western people to adapt their views to yours, by trying to force us to accept the unnatural behaviour of homosexuality. Now that's hypocritical. And no, we don't want that here in Arabic countries, keep it in your own place and God will punish the sins when it's time.


I don't think a fetus has an id nor any kind of thing that makes him an official living human.

After you just said that, I already knew it is pointless to talk with you. You preach western lifestyle, and westerns say they only believe in science, so why don't you follow science? Science tells us the fetus is a human being, and it is living [otherwise how can you kill it... :fp:]

It's so hypocrite to care about the life of a weeks-old fetus, but not the possible risk this child might have to face in families who are dysfunctional or who live in absolute poorness.

Don't have sex if you can't deal with the consequences, the baby shouldn't be killed because you a selfish person.

Offline seba

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Re: Abortion and your opinion about it
« Reply #38 on: 23 10, 2020, 10:14:07 pm »
Nobody can force a woman to give birth. Abortion should be legal in the first weeks of pregnancy.

Offline OhhKarim

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Re: Abortion and your opinion about it
« Reply #39 on: 23 10, 2020, 10:21:08 pm »
Nobody can force a woman to give birth. Abortion should be legal in the first weeks of pregnancy.

Nobody can force the killing of an innocent human being in the womb. Abortion should be illegal during the whole pregnancy.



Also your statement is contradicting "nobody can force a woman to give birth" then proceeds to say it should be legal during the first weeks, meaning you excluded the other weeks, how could you force during the last weeks of pregnancy then? Or does it become too cruel for you to kill a baby at that stage? You should feel the same during the whole pregnancy from beginning till the end, at any stage you are killing an innocent living human being, not only towards the end of the pregnancy.

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Re: Abortion and your opinion about it
« Reply #40 on: 23 10, 2020, 10:24:44 pm »
Let's say I agree with everything you said on abortion and that it shouldn't be allowed in the whole pregnancy. You will never change the fact that when a woman was raped and got pregnant, she has every right to abort even in the ninth month if she wants to. Your only reasonable argument for the whole debate is no one forced the woman to have sex, and that argument falls into water when a woman was actually FORCED to when she was raped.
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Offline OhhKarim

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Re: Abortion and your opinion about it
« Reply #41 on: 23 10, 2020, 11:14:43 pm »
Let's say I agree with everything you said on abortion and that it shouldn't be allowed in the whole pregnancy. You will never change the fact that when a woman was raped and got pregnant, she has every right to abort even in the ninth month if she wants to. Your only reasonable argument for the whole debate is no one forced the woman to have sex, and that argument falls into water when a woman was actually FORCED to when she was raped.

Man, there is nobody who hates rape more than me, hence why I support the death penalty for rapists, which is probably something even you wouldn't support. But there is no reason to punish the innocent human being who has nothing to do with the rape of the criminal, so in western countries where there is no death penalty but there is abortion, when someone gets raped, instead of killing the rapist you guys kill the baby, it can't get more wicked than this... Killing the baby does not revert the rape, it doesn't revert your trauma, it adds more trauma because you have to live your life knowing you killed an innocent human being for the crimes of their criminal father. Rather than taking care of it because your baby will love you more than anyone else on this planet, which could even help with your trauma, rather than making it worse as some people try to say.

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Re: Abortion and your opinion about it
« Reply #42 on: 25 10, 2020, 07:29:38 pm »
because most of them have sex without using a condom, and that man made the most pregnant girl want to have an abortion, it would be good for their future but that would not make babies They are even abandoned by their parents so this can happen in teenagers, sometimes the mother wants to give birth to the baby the father may not accept them so the child may be alone because without father this is my thinking
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Offline OhhKarim

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Re: Abortion and your opinion about it
« Reply #43 on: 26 10, 2020, 01:37:53 am »
because most of them have sex without using a condom, and that man made the most pregnant girl want to have an abortion, it would be good for their future but that would not make babies They are even abandoned by their parents so this can happen in teenagers, sometimes the mother wants to give birth to the baby the father may not accept them so the child may be alone because without father this is my thinking

So lets kill the baby because the parent is an asshole? Nice logic you got there.

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Re: Abortion and your opinion about it
« Reply #44 on: 03 11, 2020, 03:29:14 pm »
I Think about it that its hurt a lot since why you could abort a baby who just born to World, and you kill him? that's being so evil if this happens to me I would no Abort the baby I would keep it and grow up with the baby Instead of killing him this hurt everybody to know that you had to abort a baby.
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